#407 - JB Mauney - The Greatest Bull Rider That Ever Lived

Chris Powers: What's the difference between a fighting... is a fighting bull a different breed or is it how it's raised? 

JB Mauney: Different breed. They call them Mexican fighting bulls. 

Chris Powers: They're just born mean? 

JB Mauney: Yeah, I guess originally they originated out of Spain for the bull fights. But it's a totally- They kind of look like Corianis, like roping cattle, but bigger. But they're mean from the time they hit the ground. 

Chris Powers: So, when you say you wake up every day and you start working bulls, what does that even mean? Like to a guy like me, what is working bulls? Are you raising them from being babies? 

JB Mauney: Some guys will send me like yearlings. I had a set of cows there that we would breed every year and then I would raise the calves. But I've got a deal worked out. Norris Dalton was a man that raised bulls forever. He was in a wheelchair for the whole time I knew him. And he was always known for having big, mean, wild, son of a guns, and he kind of really wasn't hauling them as much as he used to and everything. And I'd always buy bulls from him at bull sales and stuff like that. And he's originally an old hillbilly from Kentucky, and he lived in North Texas. And when I moved to Stephenville, about an hour and a half, two hours to his place, I started going up there, and there's 900 acres up there and there was probably 200 plus cows on it. And then you'd go into a different pasture, and there was 50 or 60 bulls that were four year old bulls and up that had never been tipped. They branded them when they weaned them off their mamas and they'd been out ever since. They were like mavericks, wild, had only seen one person their whole life. And so, we started catching them, and I was buying trailer loads at a time and bucking them, going through them, stuff like that. And Norris passed away and Nick, the guy that worked for him, and Norris's wife Sheila, they want to keep the business going. And Nick asked me, he said, how do we make it better? I said, well, for one, you can't turn them out until they’re four year old, five year old bulls. I said, when you wean them, send them to me, we'll go through them. The ones that aren't no good will go to the sale barn. And I said, then I'll start working the other ones. And I said, you need to cull the older cows out, that said that aren't raising a calf and things like that. And so, I think there's roughly 150 head of cows still up there. And I've been swapping breed bulls in and out. So, I didn't need... I'd always keep 20 to... well, 20 to 30 head of cows there. Well, with 150 calves coming off that place, I didn't need my 20 or 30 in the way. So, I sold all my cows, and I started taking outside bulls in, guys needing three year olds that had never been bucked with guys on them, get them ready for riders, shoot, break them, get them to where they stand pretty good in the chute and then get a few trips on them. Because I was buying bulls all the time, and then I got to thinking, I said, man, I'm just going to kind of slack off on buying so many bulls and I'll just start taking outside bulls in. They'll pay me to do the same thing I'm already doing and I don't have to buy them. 

Chris Powers: And you're basic- How quickly can you tell if a bull is good or not? Is it genetic, or do you train them for like a month, and after a month, you can kind of tell? 

JB Mauney: It's got a lot to do with genetics now, but it's kind of like the racehorse business. You try to get the best bloodlines. But still it's just like a racehorse could be bred the best in the world and not want to run. And you can't make him. And the same way with a bucking bull, like he may have the best set of papers you could ever see, and it's like flipping a quarter whether he wants to do it or not. 

Chris Powers: So, the day that bull arrives at your place, they're, what, three or four years old? 

JB Mauney: Some, some guys will send them younger, like those calves off of that place, they'll come to me when they're yearlings. 

Chris Powers: What's happening the second they step foot? Like, what do the first 30 days look like? 

JB Mauney: We'll give them a week or two to kind of adjust being at my place, swapping places. 

Chris Powers: Just sit in the pens and in the pasture? 

JB Mauney: And then once they kind of get acclimated, I guess you could say, to my place, then we start. Everything's connected there. So, whether they're in pens, whether they're in a pasture, you can go to two or three different loadouts, my squeeze chute where we can work them, or my back pens to go to the arena. And all you gotta do is open and close gates. And so we start running them through, putting them in the bucking shoot, messing with them, seeing how bad they're going to fight that shoot. Because if you get a three year old bull that's never been in a bucking shoot a day in his life, he's not going to... it's kind of like claustrophobia. He's not going to take it very good at first. And so, you try to make it just as easy on them as possible to get them to calm down. And once they calm down, like in the way I've got my place set up, so the pen they came out of, we'll push them down there, we'll get them in the back pens. Well, I'll open it to where it goes all the way back to the pen they came out of. It'll be a straight shot. So when they leave that arena- So when they leave that arena, they're going all the way home, pretty much, back to their pen. It teaches them to leave the arena faster and easier. They know where to go. And a lot of it's a bunch of dry work like that. Like, we’ll run them through, get them handling pretty good and you get in there and you... like in the pens. We sort them on foot, get them used to people being around them, sorting them. And once you get them kind of calmed down in the bucking chute, then we'll start putting bull ropes on them and crawling off in there, sitting on them, seeing how they're going to be when they feel the weight of a guy getting on them. We call it shoot breaking, get them used to riders getting on them. And then once they get settled enough, then game time. 

Chris Powers: So, like from the first time they come in to the first time a human actually rides them, is that-?  

JB Mauney: Just depends on where they've came from. Like I've had guys send me some bulls that- And a lot of times, a lot of them are pretty much halfway broke in the bucking shoots already because now they have futurities, and they put the little box on them, it's called a dummy. It's like a 10 or 15, depending on what size the calf is. Yearlings, they got a little bitty box you can buck them with, and 2 year old, you put, I think it's like a 12 pound box but it's got a remote with it. And so put that box on them, if they go to bucking, you click it like a garage door opener, it releases and falls off. And so, a lot of them are already used to going through the shoots and things like that. They just had never had a human sit down on them. So just kind of depends. You run them in there and figure out, some of them, it takes longer. Some of them, they’re just already used to it and it doesn't bother them at all. 

Chris Powers: And do they just get better over time? It's not like how you're bucking at four. It's just like they're athletes. So four years later, they're bucking better than they were four years before. 

JB Mauney: Yeah. Constantly I'm walking around. Like Gennaro, he feeds. So, he feeds at 8 o'clock every morning. And just depends. I work different sets. One day we work one set, the next day we work a different set, the day after that, we might go back to the first set. Just depends on how they act. And I'm constantly walking around there looking at them, making sure we're feeding them enough... And that's one thing I lucked out with him because he's pretty what I call bull savvy. Like, he understands them pretty good. So, if one's bellying up, like eating too much hay and getting a gut on him, you can back him off that hay a little bit and things like that. And he's pretty good about it. And that's hard to find because most people aren't that- don't pay attention that much. You hire somebody to do a job, they do the job, but the bare minimum, and that's it. But he pays attention to them. He loves working bulls, wants no part of riding bulls. And that's the best thing for me because I had a lot of guys want to come work for me. Hey, I'll work for you if you help me ride bulls. Well, it wouldn't last very long because they wanted to do the bare minimum. And then most of them don't like the way I go about bull riding. So it didn't last very long. 

Chris Powers: Why don't most of them like the way you go about bull riding? 

JB Mauney: Oh, [? Hederman] said it the best the other day. He said if somebody that's been on bulls and they want to be a great bull rider, it's pretty simple to teach them how to do it. Tell them to get on 10 bulls a day every day. You'll figure out how to stay on. And guys aren't willing to put that much effort into it nowadays. 

Chris Powers: Is that even like readily available? Like could most guys go find a place to get on 10 bulls a day? Like in this country, how many, are there hundreds of locations to go do this? Is there 50? 

JB Mauney: Just depends. Like when I was growing up, North Carolina, like nobody thinks about it being cowboy... 

Chris Powers: It's the last place I think about. 

JB Mauney: NASCAR, things like that. Well, when I was 15, we could go to an open bull riding, 500 to 1,000 at it almost every day of the week and never go past three hours from my house. 

Chris Powers: And you would be riding?

JB Mauney: Monday... We would get on... Everybody asked me how many bulls, how many practice bulls you get on? I said, before the PBR or after? And they said, well, before you got in the PBR, the guy I traveled with, Brian Kenner. I said, we got on bulls seven days a week and twice on Sunday... That's what, they had a... On Sunday, they would have a jackpot in South Carolina at 12 o'clock. We'd go ride there, jump the truck, haul butt back to right by my house. And they had a bull riding every Sunday night. So Monday, they had an open deal, 500 at it. We'd go there on Monday nights. Tuesday night, Jerome Davis had an open bull riding, we'd go there. Wednesday nights, we'd go to a practice pen. Thursday nights, Boyce would have his bull riding Friday, Saturday we'd go to either bull ridings or rodeos. And then Sunday, we'd go to South Carolina at 12 o’clock. And then we'd be by my house that night at another bull riding. 

Chris Powers: Do you just build a muscle where you're not- like, are you just sore the whole- I'm just imagining you're sitting there with these 1800- If you're doing that all day, do you just like not get sore anymore at some point or you’re always sore? 

JB Mauney: You're always sore, but you get used to it. I went, Samantha talked me into going, my wife, she talked me into going to the chiropractor to get all lined back up. Because as much as I'd been beat up and broke and things like that, the worst thing, and still to this day, the worst thing is my hip. My right hip is shot. And it's been that way for I don't know how long. Well, I would always be cockeyed. I always walked with a limp. I still do it. It's not as bad now because I don't get on bulls all the time anymore. But it used to be, no matter what, like somebody'd be like, man, you healthy? Yeah, I'm good. And you watch me walking. You're like, no, no, he's not. And I'm like, hey, man, this is just it. But my hips would always be just messed up. And so, I went. She talked me into going to it. And I went, and they’d line everything back up, pop everything where it's supposed to be and all this. And I'm like, oh, yeah. She's like, do you feel better? I was like, yeah. But the bad thing is the first time I hit the ground, it's going to go all back out of whack again. 

Chris Powers: So that was just wear and tear over time. That wasn't one injury, just you ride every day, your hip's going to move. 

JB Mauney: When I messed it up the first time, I got mashed behind the gate working bulls. He pinned me behind the gate up against another gate, and I felt like I was in a human vice because he was pushing on the end of the gate and I was stuck between it. And he mashed me so hard that when he finally backed off and the pressure... I was seeing stars. He had mashed me so hard. But he never hit my head. And I didn't know it at the time, but I'd fractured my dang hip. And I just didn't think nothing about it. And over the years, just wear and tear, hitting the ground, getting stepped on, things like that. It's shot. I need a hip replacement. But they told me that I wasn't quite old enough to get it yet because as active as I am, if they put a new one in, by the time I was probably 50, maybe 55, I would have to have another one. 

Chris Powers: Does it hurt you right now or-?

JB Mauney: No, the shot they put in it makes feel it pretty good until it wears off and I go from be-bopping around pretty good to I look like I'm 98 years old, dragging my leg around. And it happens in about a two day span. One day you'll see me, I'll start walking slower and limping more. The next day it's worse. By the third day, I can't hardly walk. I just drag my leg around. And I'll tell Samantha on the first day, hey, call the doc, tell him I need an appointment. And I'll go in, he'll run that needle in that joint, inject it. And that day, it hurts worse than... because they shoot all that fluid in the joint, and it just sits in there. And so, it hurts worse right after. But then a day or so later, once it gets worked around all in there, then I'll be be-bopping, ready to go again. 

Chris Powers: What's the earliest memory you remember riding a bull? Like, how do you- Did you play soccer or baseball? 

JB Mauney: I played baseball for eight or nine years, played football for a couple years. Baseball, they wanted me to play for the high school. 

Chris Powers: You were still playing sports up into high school? 

JB Mauney: Yeah, they wanted me to, but I wasn't because the games were on the weekends. So I'd always play for the county because the games were during the week, and I'd go to rodeos on the weekends. Well, coaches started getting pretty pissed off that I would come in and couldn't hardly walk, run, do anything. And finally, they told me, they said, hey, you got to decide. I said, what? They said, baseball or rodeo? I said, we'll see y'all later. And I think... I was a freshman, and I mean, they wanted me to play for the high school, and I told them no. And it wasn't long after that I just quit and stuck with rodeoing. 

Chris Powers: But the first bull you ever rode, you were- You're on a calf or something? 

JB Mauney: Oh, yeah. I started riding sheep when I was three. 

Chris Powers: Okay, so you've been doing this-? 

JB Mauney: Yeah, my dad, he rodeoed and he steer rassled. Never rode bulls or anything like that. But I rode sheep. And then I started getting on calves when I was probably 5.  

Chris Powers: Is it riding sheep like they do where you just bear hug it and let it run? 

JB Mauney: No, not like you see at the rodeos. Like you actually, you got a rope on them and... I think I was five when I started getting on calves. Eight, eight or nine when I started getting on steers. And then I started getting on big bulls when I was 13. 

Chris Powers: You got- and a big bull is, what, 1500? 

JB Mauney: What you see now. 

Chris Powers: Really? Were you scared? 

JB Mauney: Not really. I got wrecked out the first one I ever got on. 

Chris Powers: What happened? 

JB Mauney: Jerked me down, hit me on the side of the face. 

Chris Powers: Were you wearing a helmet? 

JB Mauney: Then I was. 

Chris Powers: You don't wear helmets anymore. 

JB Mauney: No, I didn't. I quit wearing it. I was so mad when my parents decided they were going to make me wear one. I was in the steer riding. 

Chris Powers: It's like wearing training wheels. 

JB Mauney: Yeah, that's back before everybody wore helmets. So, I was kind of like the- I stuck out like a sore thumb. I was the only one with a helmet on. And it pissed me off. And I always told them, the day I turned 18, I was throwing that thing in a garbage can. Well, you do something that much, it becomes habit. And so, I kept wearing it. And I'd got on bulls without it before, just like practice bulls, things like that. And I think it was 2011, ’12 maybe, I was riding pretty bad. Like I was fighting my head pretty bad. And so, I was getting on as many practice bulls as I could. And we went to get on some bulls one day, and it was just habit that when I like put my vest on, I grabbed my helmet. Well, I didn't. I didn't realize I didn't, went, got on this bull. And I mean, the practice bulls I used to get on were not like what you would think practice bulls were. Like, they were pretty salty. 

Chris Powers: They were tournament ready. 

JB Mauney: Yeah, like I could- I sent a lot of them to some PBRs, like the minor level PBRs, and you could be 86, 87 points on them. Like, they were pretty good bulls. I got on one that turned back to the right away from my hand, and I rode him dead easy. And he was bucking pretty hard. And I stepped off, and somebody said, man, you look good. I said, that felt good. Like, all right... we're riding back out of this slump. And somebody said, you going to quit wearing it? I said, what are you talking about? He said, your helmet. And I just kind of looked up and I had my cowboy hat on, and I never put it back on. 

Chris Powers: All right, when you got on that bull the first time when you were 13, how long until you rode 8 seconds on a real bull? Did it take like a couple tries or was this like an all year thing to finally ride eight? 

JB Mauney: I mean, I can't remember the first one I rode. I remember the first one that wrecked me out though. Hit me in the head. I hung up to him, stomped me. And at first, I was kind of like, what in the hell am I doing? And then the next day, I wanted to do it again. And I tell people it's something that once you try it, it gets in your blood. Like, you don't ever get it out. And I'm not real sure when I rode my first one, but when I was younger, I thought if a bull turned back to the left end of my hand because I rode left handed, I was supposed to spur him. I was always trying to spur everything I got on. 

Chris Powers: So that it would buck harder? 

JB Mauney: Well, I mean, just to show off, pretty much. Like, you're just showing you're in control. But part of the time you're spurring because you have to. And I was taught, the guy that pretty much taught me how to ride bulls, Mike Law, he was a friend of my dad's. He had daughters and sons that were my age, and so we were always at the same junior rodeos, things like that. Well, he started helping me. And then when I got to getting on big bulls, like I said, like one twinkled their ear like they were going to turn back to the left, I started spurring, and it would get me thrown off a lot of times. And my dad was like, man, he needs to quit spurring so much. And Mike said, just wait, it'll come. It'll come. And it did. Because he always told me, he said, you ride bulls like you ride a bicycle. You keep moving constantly. And if you think you've got a good seat on them, move your feet again. Just constantly keep shuffling and keep jockeying around. And so that's how I always rode. Well, when I was younger, I was too loose because I would gap open and go to spurring. And if one hit went the other way, I was in a bind. And once I got older, I kind of got to learn, you kind of learn control. And that's what everybody- Man, the older I got, them young guys, when I was still riding bulls, they're like, you don't spur very many bulls. I said, one, I can't. I can’t raise my leg that high anymore. I think I'm spurring one, but I'm not moving my foot but that far. But I've got some pictures at the house where my foot's up beside my head, just giving it to one. I said, yeah. I said, you ride bulls for 20 years of your life, see if your legs work like they used to. 

Chris Powers: Can you actually explain to the common person like what being in control of a bull actually like feels? Is it explainable?

JB Mauney: You get in time with one- Yeah, it is. If you get in time with a bull and you're where you need to be, it feels like you're sitting in a rocking chair. 

Chris Powers: Where do you need to be? 

JB Mauney: Well, you got to kind of stay out over them. It depends on what the bull is doing, actually what... 

Chris Powers: And are you feeling that in real time? You feel it with your legs or is it just like second nature?

JB Mauney: It is second nature. Everything has to be a reaction. If a bull hits and goes right, and I think, oh, I need to move there, you're bucked off, it's too late. It has to be just- 

Chris Powers: You just kind of know. And you can feel it in your legs? 

JB Mauney: I could... You have to have real good control over your own body. And that's what I've told Jagger. I said, a lot of them guys now, they're leaning more towards the being an athlete kind of deal, exercising, working out, eating right and all that. And I said, well, do whatever you want to. But I've told Jagger, like Samantha took him to kind of a trainer guy to work on stuff. And she said, what do I tell him? Because I was working bulls and couldn't go. I said, core and balance. That's the main two things. I said, because as long as your core's strong, you can control the rest of your body with your core. And I said, the better your balance is, the better you can ride. And that's why bull riders aren't very big, because... 

Chris Powers: Yeah, they’re all pretty small.

JB Mauney: I've weighed 140, 145 pounds since I can remember. And somebody says, well, you're little. I thought you'd be bigger. And what's easier to balance? 140 pounds or 200?  And I mean, that's the easiest way to explain it. Like, I've seen guys that were bigger, they come to a bull riding school or something and be like, what do I need to do? You need to lose weight. And then some of them would take it the wrong way. And I wasn't being mean. But like, if you want to do this, like you need to lose weight, because it's just, it's pretty simple. What's easier to balance 140 pounds or 200 pounds? 

Chris Powers: Real quick I want to go back. When did you actually know you were good? Like... is getting on a bull at 13, is that what most kids are doing these days? Or is that- 

JB Mauney: Most of them are older. That was pretty early. 

Chris Powers: That was early. Were you good at that point? Or were you just fearless? 

JB Mauney: I wasn't very good. Like, everybody always asked me, what bull riding school did you go to? I said, the one of trial and error. What's that mean? If it didn't work, I tried not to do it again kind of deal. But the guy I traveled with when I first started, like when I was 16, we started going to kind of some open bull ridings and things, Brian Canter, he was a little bitty son of a gun, weighed about 110 pounds, and we were the opposite side of the coin. He had all the natural ability you could ever want. Anything he ever tried, wakeboarding, pop right up, ride it, snowboarding. Anything he did, he could just do it. He was athletic and small enough, and I mean, he could do it. And riding bulls, the same way, get in a wreck, he would land on his feet like a cat and come out smelling like a rose. I was the opposite side of the coin. I didn't do things- And when rode, he looked correct on a bull. Like he never made moves that he didn't need to. No wasted motion. Just looked, I guess you could say look pretty riding one. Me, I was the opposite side of the coin. I was flopping around. I was whipping my arm all over the place where it wasn't supposed to be. But the one thing I wouldn't do is I would not turn loose. I would not turn loose until my head hit the ground. And that's one reason I got on so many practice bulls because I was bound and determined I was going to figure it out. And I told a lot of people. I said, I never really thought in my own head that I knew how to ride bulls until after I was already in the PBR. But I worked at it every day of my life. Back when I started, there wasn't social media. There was nothing like that. So everybody thought, oh, well, he's just been good his whole life. They didn't see what I was doing behind closed doors at home. And I've told a lot of guys, I said, bull riding is a sport, where baseball players, they practice. I said, same. It's all the same. Yeah, it's more dangerous. You can die just as quick getting on a practice bull as you can for a million bucks. They step on you the right way, that's it, you're done. And I said, but you still got to practice. It's a sport that the day you stop working at it is the day you never get any better. 

Chris Powers: And like, is it the type of deal where when you draw said bull, whatever bull it is, you kind of know what ride you're about to get, or some bulls do the same moves and some are just wildly different each time?

JB Mauney: Some of them's got set patterns, kind of. I never liked knowing what a bull would do because I always- Everything I do in my life, I've always been better shooting from the hip, not thinking about it a whole lot. And I've told people a million times, think long, think wrong. I go with my gut, and I go right off the bat. And some guys that watch videos, I got this bull, they'll look him up. Now you can look anything up on your dang phone or whatever, and they've got a deal now, it's called Pro Bull Stats. You type the bull's brand or his name in. If he's been out at professional events, it'll pull every out he's ever had. Some of them, most of them have videos with it. You just click the video and it'll... But like, that's an animal. That son of a gun may do the same thing 20 times in a row, and then you’ll be the 21st guy and he does something completely different. It's a living animal. So, a lot of them have, yeah, they do have a tendency of doing the same things. The smarter, better bulls, they don't. They'll do something different every time. A lot of them, some of them buck off of feel. They're smart. They'll get you rocked to one side, and then they'll go the other way. 

Chris Powers: Is bull riding the kind of thing where, let's say, like let's say you got to see in advance exactly what the bull is going to do before you got on it. Is it the type of thing that if you already knew what the bull would do, it would be, like you would ride eight seconds every time? So sometimes it's just you're never going to do it, no matter what? 

JB Mauney: If you know what they're going to do or what they're supposed to do, in the back of your mind, you're setting a trap. And in bull riding, you set a trap, you get caught in it. And bulls, they're way smarter than people give them credit. 

Chris Powers: Explain that.

JB Mauney: Well, I mean, the best way to explain it, a fly lands on their back and they can swish their tail around there and hit that fly off of them. They know exactly where you are when you're sitting on them. They can feel your weight shift to one side or the other. And the older bulls that have been bucked, they're smart. You get in that bucking chute, when they know- I got by with it a lot better because I was so fast in the bucking chutes that a lot of times, them bulls didn't know I was nodding. 

Chris Powers: And was that a strategy or-?  

JB Mauney: That's just how I went about it. I felt like it made me ride better because I would sit, you sit back where you got room to heat your rope up and everything. But when I took my wrap, I never slid up. Like, I would take it and I'd reach up on the bucking chute, and I would nod and then slide up. Well, a lot of guys, they'll take their wrap, they'll slide up there and get set down. Well, them bulls get smart. So, when they feel you slide up there and get on your rope, they go to leaning on you. And when they go to leaning on you, you got 1700 pounds mashing your leg up against a steel bucking shoot. 

Chris Powers: They're doing that to screw with you? 

JB Mauney: Oh, yeah. They know exactly what they're doing. 

Chris Powers: So by you waiting and going all at the same time, you have... So you probably gained a half second or a second just by doing that. 

JB Mauney: They didn't know it was coming. They would stand better with me. They wouldn't get in their starting blocks is what we call it. Some of them will squat when they feel guys. They'll go to squatting down, get kind of low so they can spring out of that bucking chute. They're a lot smarter than you think. Like, I just see a cow or a bull. I mean, they're smart. And some of them, I've seen bulls that in the back pens, you can go back there and scratch all over them. You buck them and they will run... Anybody in front of them, they'll run them over. They know the game.

Chris Powers: What's going on in the chute? And do you get to pick if you come out to the right or the left or that's picked for you? 

JB Mauney: That's the bull. 

Chris Powers: So... will they already know that- If you're coming out on the left side, it's because that bull has proven that it's a left side dominant bull? 

JB Mauney: Yeah... like those calves that come to my house and I put the dummies on them, when I start putting the dummies on them, I record all of them. I'll have somebody videoing them so I can watch them back after we dummy them. And what I'm looking at is what lead they are on when they leave that bucking chute.

Chris Powers: Which means which way they turn their head? 

JB Mauney: Nope, their feet. Their heads don't mean anything. And bulls, they'll sling their heads this way and then go that way. You see which foot hits first when they leave out of there. That tells you what lead they're on. And some of them, like if you've got them on the left, where they leave on the left hand side, if they're on their right lead, it'll take them two or three jumps to either swap leads or they'll go out through there a little bit and then turn back to the right. Well, I kind of watch them and then you can swap them. If one's on his right lead every time and then turns back to the right, I'll swap him and put him on the right side, because he's on his right lead. I always, I know some guys that start all their calves and stuff out of a right hand delivery. I always start mine on the left hand side. 

Chris Powers: Why?

JB Mauney: Just habit... You could do it the other way around if you wanted to. 

Chris Powers: It's like superstition type thing? 

JB Mauney: I don't know. I just always run them out of the left. I found that most bulls, most calves that you run are naturally on their left lead for the most part. 

Chris Powers: Does the shoot give a- Like, are all the top guys when they're in the chute- or is anybody gaining-? Like you kind of said you gained a- Is there any other way to like gain an advantage? And maybe you can talk about your suicide grip, but like, how much of the bull ride has to do with what happens the second before they leave the shoot? 

JB Mauney: The way I looked at it is I wanted those bulls to buck to their top potential... so I get the highest score. Some guys weren't like that. Some of them would pull that rope in them pretty tight and then just sit there, trying to take it, take the air out of them, I guess you could say. Take the gas. 

Chris Powers: What are they called? What'd you say it was? 

JB Mauney: So I call them soaking. Soaking them. 

Chris Powers: So they're pulling it so tight that- 

JB Mauney: Well, they pull it tight and then they take their wrap, and then they just sit there and they screw off in there. And they're not, I call it they're not tending the business. They're just jacking around with them. But a lot of times when you see a guy do that, sometimes it is the bull. The bull’s leaning, the bull’s squatting, something like that. They're trying to get them standing up. But then there was some, there's some guys I've seen bull standing dead perfect in the bucking chute, and they're still messing around. Well, they're just trying to get an advantage, take a little bit out of that bull before they nod their head. I never was like that. I wanted them to buck as hard as they possibly could. So I pulled my rope, and I pulled a tightrope. Because the way I tied my hand in there, if I come off the right side, I was pretty much hung up, and I wanted my hand to stay on top of that bull's back and not slide and be under his belly. And so, I pulled a pretty tight rope, but I didn't sit in there. When I pulled it, as soon as I took my wrap, them guys on the outside opened the gate. They were getting ready because I was- The nod was coming pretty fast. 

Chris Powers: They knew it. 

JB Mauney: Yeah. And I would tell them guys, if they swap gate men at them deals, if there was some new gate men, I would tell them, hey, I'd rather you be early than late any day. And I said, when I take my rap, I'm getting ready to nod, so pay attention. And because a lot of times they catch guys off guard, because you get used to 12 guys in a row slide up there and they're getting ready and they're taking their time and... then they nod. Well, me, you had to be paying attention because I did it fast. Like, I'd take my wrap and I'd lay my tail up there. And when I grabbed the top of that bucking chute, I was nodding and going all at the same. And if they were late and didn't catch it, well, I would hit up there where I was supposed to be. Well, the gate wasn't open. A lot of times, it makes them bulls go to bucking in there. And so, I'd always tell them, look, I'd rather you be early than late any day. I said, if you are early, I will never say I didn't nod. I promise you that. 

Chris Powers: Is the only reason why another bull rider wouldn't pull it as tight as you is because they're nervous they're going to get caught up if they get flung off? Like, is there any reason why you wouldn't go as tight as possible? 

JB Mauney: When I was younger, I didn't pull it as tight. 

Chris Powers: Is that because you didn't know? 

JB Mauney: Well, because I was a little bitty and... Well, somebody else is always pulling the rope, but you can back off that rope and it's like a shock absorber. I was little bitty. I'm 30, almost 40 now. And you can imagine how big I was when I was 14, and I was getting on 1600, 1700 pound bulls. So, I was little, and they were so big and strong that they would just snatch the piss out of me, so I could back off that rope and leave it a little bit looser, not just completely loose, but where it would wiggle a little bit, and that would give me a little extra. When they dropped and jerked on me, it wasn't just taking it all on the end of my arm. It was a little bit of give in there. And then once I got bigger and a little bit older, then I started pulling it tight because I'd get hung up and wrecked out and stomped. And I always wanted my hand to stay on top. I didn't want it sliding down underneath because when it gets under their belly, you're all up in their back legs. 

Chris Powers: That's just literally what you just said. Like, your hand stays... 

JB Mauney: That's how I lacerated my liver. 

Chris Powers: It just landed straight in your liver? 

JB Mauney: Stomped me with both back feet right in my stomach. 

Chris Powers: Do you just lay there after? Like what do you? Is the adrenaline going so quick you have...? 

JB Mauney: A lot of people say I don't see how you got up like when I broke my neck and things like that. And there's only one time I've ever been carried out of any arena. I've got up and walked out of every arena I've ever been in, except for one. And that's because I didn't know they were rolling me. It knocked me out. And it's... when I tore my shoulder up.  

Chris Powers: You were just laying there in the- 

JB Mauney: Yeah, I was face down, and I woke up pretty quick. I didn't have a concussion. I knew exactly what had happened. It wasn't like I lost anything. I knew what bull I got on. I knew exactly what happened. And I couldn't see anything. So when they got to me, I told him to take my hat off. And because I didn't know where the bull was at. Like, all I could hear was somebody saying, JB, you gotta quit moving. I said, take my hat off. I couldn't see anything. And I remember I was pushing with this arm to like get up off my belly. And I was trying to put this arm in front of me, and it wouldn't work. It was just laying over there. And I was like, man, I must have broke my arm or something. Well, when they rolled me over, I didn't know they rolled me right onto a backboard. And I was talking to that doctor that was in Calgary, and he was asking about my head. I said, look, my head's fine. I don't have a concussion, told him everything. He said, well, what hurts? I said, my shoulder. It is out. He looked down. He said, yeah, bad too. I said, could you hand me my arm? And he said, what? I said, pick my arm up. And he picked it up. I got a hold of it. I said, I'm fine now. Well, then they started strapping me, put a neck brace on and strapping me to that backboard. I said, what are you doing? He said, well, it's just for precaution, safety. I was mad. I was going out that arena. I told him, I said, you know how many times I've ever been carried out of the arena? No. I said, never. And I said, the last time I checked, there's not a damn thing wrong with my legs. And they took me. They got a hospital room right under the announcer stand at Calgary. And they took me in there and they gave me some pain medicine, everything. 

Chris Powers: Did they let you smoke a cigarette inside or no? 

JB Mauney: No, not that one. 

Chris Powers: Not that one. 

JB Mauney: And he said, we're going to have to pop your shoulder back in. I said, you're not doing anything until you unstrap this neck brace and unstrap me off this board. Like I can handle being strapped down, but I don't like it. And I said, you unstrap me, you can do whatever you want to with me. And he said, well, we can't. And I said, well, you're not going to mess with my shoulder then. He said, well, how are you going to stop us? And I laid my arm across my stomach and I said, I got one good hand, and I’ll fight every one of you. I said, unstrap this. You can do whatever you want. They unstrapped me, and they got ‘er popped back in, which I don't know if that was a good thing or a bad thing, because after I had the x-rays and MRIs, the only thing that was holding my arm on was the skin. I completely tore everything in my shoulder. 

Chris Powers: For the record, will you just go through your injury list? 

JB Mauney: How long you want to do this podcast? 

Chris Powers: We got time. 

JB Mauney: That list is way longer than the accomplishments. 

Chris Powers: Every arm or every limb. 

JB Mauney: This elbow’s, I don't know what, you'd have to ask Tandy what all I tore up in it.  I wore a brace on it for a long time to keep it from hyper extending. Because if a bull would snatch it and pop it all the way straight, like I can't straighten it all the way out just normal. But if a bull would pop it straight, it would lock in a 90 and it would swell up real bad. And it would stay like that for about three or four days and then I could- It'd start working again eventually. But as long as I wore that brace on, it'd keep it from doing it. But I was real bad. I hated taping stuff. I hated wearing braces. I didn't like any of it. Like I didn't like anything. And let's see. There's no ACL, MCL or PCL on my right knee. No ACL or MCL in my left knee. The hip, it is probably easier to say what's not wrong with it. I think there's three or four fractures in the hip, hip impingement, bone spurs, calcium buildup. I ripped a tendon completely in two that's in there. I don't know. I broke my jaw, broke my eye socket, got a plate and six screws in my left hand, broke dang near all those knuckles on this hand. That's why they're all crooked and don't work right. And broke my leg, broke the small bone in each leg a couple different times, would never let them cast it. And lacerated my liver, broke all my ribs on my right side, lacerated my kidney, collapsed lung and a shit ton of stitches. 

Chris Powers: So there's basically like you're never not riding injured. 

JB Mauney: Yeah, that's what I've always told... If you can't deal with some pain, you might as well just not try to ride bulls. 

Chris Powers: If you had to wait for every single one of those to heal, you just wouldn't of had a career. 

JB Mauney: No. That's what I always said. If I was sat out for any every strain or tear or something like that, I'd have never made it to the PBR. 

Chris Powers: So, like in most sports, the difference between first and let's say top one in the world and top 50 is actually not- like it's a game of inches. What separates, what makes number one number one and number 50 number 50?

 JB Mauney: What's above their shoulders. 

Chris Powers: It's all in their head. 

JB Mauney: I'm no tougher than you. I'm no tougher than anyone else on this face of this earth. I told myself I was tougher, and I believed it. No matter how bad I was hurt, for some reason, the way I was wired was I still felt like I could ride them. I see guys now, like the doctor said, well, you probably need to sit out. Oh, okay, yeah. I was the one to argue. I was like, man, I can still do it. You better break out your tape, tape this son of a gun together, because I'm riding. I just loved riding bulls so much, and it wasn't, like a lot of it had to do with me. I wanted to prove to myself I could do it. I wanted to prove that I was tough to myself. No matter how bad I was hurt, I can still put it out of my mind for eight seconds and ride them. And that has to do with all above your shoulders. It doesn't mean, everybody said, oh, your pain tolerance must be through the roof. Well, yeah, now. I've trained myself to be that way, but it's because I told myself I was. It's all how you think and look at things. A lot of guys are like, well, I did this. I don't need to ride. Well, I could do the same thing and be like, I might have to tape it every time I ride, but I can do it. I can get by. I may not be able to run very good when I hit the ground, but I can crawl pretty fast. And when I broke my neck, my left leg, left foot, and right ankle were broken when I broke my neck. They did a full body x-ray on me when I went into the hospital. And that surgeon told Samantha said, he said, you know when we did the x-ray, we noticed that his left leg, his left foot and his right ankle are broken. She said, yeah, he knew that before we got here. And he asked me, he said, well, why did you keep going? And I said, they take the top 15 in the world to the NFR. He said, yeah. I said I was sitting 17th. I wasn't going to stop. Like, I was- At the time, like when I got to Lewiston that night, I didn't know what leg to limp on. Like they were swelled up, beat all to hell. I had tennis shoes on. Well, I had a walking boot on one foot, tennis shoe on the other, and like they were, my legs were shot. And actually when I hit the ground that night, when I landed on my head, my first thought was, man, thank God he didn't step on my legs. And I rolled over and went to push and get up, and I was like, shit, I just broke my neck. 

Chris Powers: You knew it. 

JB Mauney: Oh, yeah, I felt it as soon as I pushed, when I put my hands on the ground, when I raised my head up, like to push and raise up, when I tried to look up, I felt it. And I said, I just broke my neck. I broke enough stuff, I knew what it was. And because I broke my back, I don't know what year it was. And same deal, I felt it. It was like somebody stuck a knife just right where- And I walked out of the arena and Tandy was standing there. He's like, you all right? I said, no, I just broke my back right between my shoulder blades. And they sent me to the hospital and they x-rayed it. He come in, he said, you were right, T1, T2 is fractured. I said, I told you I felt it. And that was the same deal. When I went to get up that night and when I picked my head up, because I pushed and I was looking at the ground, I pushed like this and was all right. But when I put my- done like that to look up, I felt it. And I was like, oh, man, I just broke my neck. And I didn't think it was that bad. It shot a pain through this arm at first, but at first I thought it was something to do with my shoulder because I've got, there's 13 anchors in it. And my first thought was I just screwed- I jacked my shoulder up again because I couldn't... It locked up, like my fingers curled up, like I couldn't straighten them. And so I just tucked it in like this and I walked on my knees and I wiggled my way up on my feet and I walked back to the bucking chutes. And those guys were like, you all right? I said, well, I just broke my neck. And they said, don't move. I said, that bull gone? They said, yep. I said, let me out of this shoot. And I turned and walked out of the arena. And when I walked out the let out gate, the one time in my entire life, I walked straight to a set of paramedics ever. And I walked straight to them. There was a bench right beside them, and I sat down and he said, what's going on? I said, my neck's broke. And that's when I'd rode from Ellensburg, Washington. Samantha and Jagger stayed with the RV there. I jumped in with Kai Hamilton and Stetson Wright, we're going to run to Lewiston, ride, drive right back to Ellensburg. And Kai and them, somebody asked him, said, you really think he broke his neck? And Kai said, well, I've watched him on TV and I have never seen him walk straight to paramedics ever, no matter how bad he was hurt. But I knew. I didn't think it was as bad as it was because everything- Because that pain went away. My fingers started working again, in my arm, like everything, all the feeling and shit come back, and I was like, oh, it ain't that bad. So I really wasn't too worried. I thought, well, I broke something in there. And then come to find out, it was a lot worse than what I thought. 

Chris Powers: How long between that and then the doctor saying that's it? 

JB Mauney: A couple days. They took me to the hospital. They did the x-ray. They came in and told me that they were probably going to have to do surgery. And the hospital in Lewiston, Idaho, is not too large of an establishment. 

Chris Powers: It's not a Dallas? 

JB Mauney: No. So I was kind of nervous. I was like, I don't know if I want these people cutting on my neck. And so, I called Tandy and I said, look, I broke my neck. I'm in Lewiston, Idaho. I said, they're wanting to do surgery, but I don't know if I want them doing it here. And I said, if I can get that surgeon to call you, will you just figure out what the deal is? He said, yeah. So that surgeon was real nice, the one that actually did my surgery. But he called Tandy. They talked. Tandy called me about 20, 30 minutes later. He said, you're having surgery in Lewiston, Idaho. And he said, you're in good hands. He said, he's a real good doctor. He said, but you're having it there. Why? They can't move you, they can't drive you, they can't fly you, they can't move you. I said, that bad? He said, it's not very good. So, I kind of knew then, I was like, if he's telling me that, because Tandy Freeman's been at bull ridings and around bull riding since the 90s, so he's seen everything and anything you could see. And so, him to say it wasn't very good, I knew it had to be pretty bad. And that surgeon, once he did the surgery, he told me, he said, I'm not sure why, I'm not real sure why you're not paraplegic. And I said, what do you mean? He said, if you had any room at all, you had a millimeter, maybe. The disc was smashed into my spinal cord, and they cut my throat, went in the front, took the disc out the front, then cut the back of my neck, put plate screws and a rod in the back. And he told me, he said, surgery went good. I was like, perfect. And he said, now your occupation. I said, what about it? It might be time for... to look into a different one. And I said, why? He said, well, where we fixed, you'll never have to worry about it again. But it's so stout that it's going to weaken above and below it. And he said, it's not 100% chance, but it's about 98, 99 if you land on your head again, you'll snap your neck above or below where we fix. I said, I'm listening. He said, below, you're in a wheelchair the rest of your life. Above, your dead. I said, oh, great. Those are wonderful odds. Thank you very much. And he kind of looked at me, and I said, because there's a hundred percent chance I'm going to land on my head. For the last 20 years of my life, I used my head as landing gear. And evidently it weighed more than my feet because when I went up in the air, my head came down first and I always landed on it. 

Chris Powers: How much does the- So you said it's mental, which I... Okay. Is any of it technique? And does mental go bad for a lot of guys where they're good until they've had that first terrible injury and then they never- It's like bull block. They can't ever snap out of it. 

JB Mauney: Crack the egg in them. 

Chris Powers: Is that what you call it? So, the top guys in the world right now, how old are they? 

JB Mauney: I mean, John, he's one of the best ones going, Cranberry. 

Chris Powers: And he's got it here, obviously. 

JB Mauney: Oh, yeah. 

Chris Powers: But does he have- Is there anything physical about it or-? 

JB Mauney: Oh, yeah. You got to be in shape. 

Chris Powers: Or maybe just like, are they born with a gift of technique that's just like they're just natural? 

JB Mauney: Some of them are, yeah. Obviously, I wasn't very natural at it. I had to work my ass off at it. 

Chris Powers: You were just flying around. 

JB Mauney: Yeah, I looked, like there's not too many videos from when I was 14 or 15 getting on bulls. But you would look at it and be like, oh my God. But I'd make the whistle because I wouldn't turn loose. I did it the most incorrect way possible. But I worked at it every day of my life to figure it out. 

Chris Powers: So because of mental, you stayed on bulls longer, most guys would have just let go at some point. 

JB Mauney: I was in the till the bitter end. I didn't know when to let go. And the older I got, and for sure after I broke my hand, it messed the filling up in it and everything. Like the way I took my wrap when I was riding, I've always took my wrap the same way. 

Chris Powers: Did you teach yourself that or did somebody teach you that? You just kind of do it over time.

JB Mauney: I just did it. Like you watch them old school bull ridings. A lot of guys do it, some guys don't. It's whatever feels good to you. And the way my pinky is, it always felt better to me to run it between the ring finger and the little finger. I felt like I could hold on to that rope better. And because 1700 pound bull drops out of there and snatches on your arm, you got to have that thing tied in there pretty good to keep a hold of it. And so, I always felt like I just could hold on to it better, had a better grip on it if I split it through there. In return, double edged sword, felt good. My hand didn't come out, but if I come off the right side, I was going to hang and drag, so it wouldn't come out and you'd have to work quite a bit harder to get it out. 

Chris Powers: So you could tell right out the gate, you're like the bull would make a move and you're like, shit, this is going to happen. Or the odds of this happening have just gone up. 

JB Mauney: Middle of the ride, you get out of shape and you're in a dog fight. And like the day I tore my shoulder up, like I rode the bull, and when the whistle blew, I was out of shape and behind, and I knew, I was like well, I'm about to hang to this son of a gun. Because the position I was in, I knew what was coming. And what made that worse is my rope slipped across that bull's back. So as I'm getting flung over his right shoulder, instead of it staying up on top of me, my legs going down, it slid with me. When it slipped, it just slid me down right up underneath him. And he kicked at me is all he did. And when he kicked at me, he stepped in that armpit. Well, I had this arm out to catch myself on the ground. And when he stepped in me, the way it snapped me to the ground, it popped my shoulder out the bottom side and just tore completely everything. 

Chris Powers: How much do the bullfighters, the clowns, rodeo clowns- What do we call them? 

JB Mauney: Rodeo bull fighters. 

Chris Powers: How much do they matter? 

JB Mauney: A lot. I'd be in way worse shape if it wasn’t for those guys. 

Chris Powers: From a bulls would have trampled you after you fell type situation? But do they matter like during the ride, or is there any other time they matter than protecting you post ride? 

JB Mauney: Not really. When a bull's bucking, they're reading that bull is what they're doing. They're watching you and reading that bull. And they kind of hang back while you're riding so they don't accidentally get the bull's attention. But when the whistle blows, like if a bull’s spinning to the left into my hand, the whistle blows, I reach down and grab my tail to undo the wrap. You see people sitting there holding it, well, they'll come in, they'll try to get that bull's attention and take him the other way. Because the rule of thumb is, like you see a lot of guys jump off away from their hand now, but it's because they ride with a Brazilian rope. And the Brazilian ropes are built backwards from an American rope. 

Chris Powers: What does that mean? 

JB Mauney: Like, my rope got the handle on it and there's a loop on it. The tail runs through your loop. You pull it up the same side as the hand you ride with. Brazilian ropes are backwards. So, it's got the same handle, but the loops on that side. And the tail comes across their back, so it pulls from the opposite side. It's just backwards. 

Chris Powers: What do the Brazilians know that we don't know? 

JB Mauney: I don't know. Like everybody- they don't hang up near as bad with a Brazilian rope as you do with an American rope. It still happens. It’s bull riding. I mean, you could- you're going to get hung up no matter what you use. But a lot of guys have swapped from an American rope and went to a Brazilian rope because you don't get hung up as much. And I got on with a Brazilian rope one time left handed and did not like it. And everybody asked me, hey, why don't you try a Brazilian? I said, I started with an American rope, and I'll finish with American rope. And that's another thing. People put too much thought into that. If you're in the right spot and you're doing it correctly, you can ride them with a flank rope. It doesn't matter any kind of rope wrapped around them. 

Chris Powers: Is there a certain thing that a bull does that is why riders fly off? Like, if you were to say, as soon as you get in this position, you're toast, like what- Obviously they're bucking, they're going nuts. But for the professionals, what gets people out of whack the quickest? Because some guys fly off in like a second, and some guys, it takes six seconds. Like, what's the thing that gets them- How does somebody fly off in a second? 

JB Mauney: They don't leave the chute right. 

Chris Powers: Okay, maybe, two or three seconds. 

JB Mauney: There are the guys that get bucked off like right out of the chute, they're behind when they nodded. That's why I would always nod and slide to them bulls, because if the gate man opened it at the right time, I'd already nodded. I'm sliding, going to my rope. That bull's always going to leave in a forward motion. He's standing here. He has to go that way or has to go that way. And so, I'm moving in the same direction. He's getting ready to start moving in. So, I'm leaving with him. A lot of guys, I'd always tell them, I mean, it's each to his own. It's kind of whatever fits you and makes you think you rode better, then that's what you do. But some guys like to slide up there and get on the rope, then nod. Well, for me, I couldn't do it. I would get up there, slide there, and as soon as I would nod, I'd sit down on my butt. Well, you sit down on your butt, you're behind. 

Chris Powers: But even the best bull riders in the world will leave the chute wrong?

JB Mauney: Sometimes.

Chris Powers: On accident or just like getting cocky or something? It's like out of your control type thing? 

JB Mauney: Well, I've done it before. Just kind of like an oh shit moment. I shouldn't have done that. 

Chris Powers: And you know it immediately?

JB Mauney: Oh, yeah, like I knew every time I hit the ground. Jerome Robinson was like one of the arena directors. He walked around in a suit jacket. He passed away, but he rode for I don't know how many years, rode bulls, made the NFR I don't know how many times. He would always be standing. You never really saw him if you were watching it on TV a whole lot, because he didn't move a whole lot. He had a headset on, papers, and he'd always stand in a corner, and he had a suit jacket on. Well, if I would get bucked off and he was somewhere close, I would always walk to him and say, hey, what do you think? To make sure what I'm thinking I did wrong looked- to make sure it was the same. How did it look on the outside looking in? I know what I think I did wrong, but what do you think I did wrong? To see if I'm on the right page. And I trusted him more than I did anyone else. I'd go and ask him and just to make sure I had a- But 99% of times when I hit the ground, I knew exactly what I did wrong. There's a few bulls I got on that bucked me off that I absolutely have no idea what happened. They were just better than me that day. 

Chris Powers: Yeah, but a lot of times, you just know. 

JB Mauney: A lot of times, yeah. When you get bucked off, 99% of the time, it was your fault. You caused the buck off. You got out of shape or out of time with him. You whipped your free arm behind you. You made one wrong move, and that's what caused the buck off. Wasn't the bull. I've never blamed any bull. And you see a lot of guys now – well, that bull was a hard to ride hunk of junk. And I told somebody at our bull riding, somebody said, man, that one Casey got on, the second bull, he's got some tricks to him, and he's kind of hard to ride. And so he said, man, that was a hunk of junk. I said, last time I checked, your job description is bull rider. Nowhere in there does it say, nice bulls only. I said, you got to ride them all. 

Chris Powers: What made Bushwhacker unstoppable? So would we consider him like the perfect bull? 

JB Mauney: Yeah, if you’re a stock contractor. 

Chris Powers: What's that mean?

JB Mauney: For the guy that owns him and bucking him, yeah, you love him. 

Chris Powers: And is it profitable to own a bull like Bushwacker? Like, is it a profitable industry?

JB Mauney: Yeah, it can be, but, I mean, it's something... 

Chris Powers: It's more the legend and like the-? 

JB Mauney: It's something like... Everybody jokes, you want to get in the bull business, you want to be a millionaire in the bull business, you better start out a billionaire. Because it's a passion. You got to love it. You're not going to make no killing raising bucking bulls. It's just being able to have something and watch them grow. And there's HD Page and them by far, hands down, got the best breeding program. They show up with the most bulls. 

Chris Powers: And that's because of genetics and their process for raising them? 

JB Mauney: And there's no telling how many cows they've got up there. They breed every year. And HD Page is one of the- I mean, they're constantly like, I always say we work bulls every day. They work bulls every day. Because you take my place and times it by about 30, and you got theirs, the amount of cattle and bulls and everything. So they're always doing something with bulls. And they raise them from the ground up. Some guys, they got backers, they come in, they buy them. They go and buy them, and they haul them, which there's no right or wrong to it, but like HD and them, if they show up with a bull on their trailer that has their brand on them, they raised him from a calf till he got there. 

Chris Powers: And you just know it's a good bull?

JB Mauney: Oh, yeah. You crawl in a bucking shoot and you got one with a rocking P on his hip, you better cock your hammer, because 99% of the time, they're really good. 

Chris Powers: Well, you said they would think it's the perfect bull. What do you think is the perfect bull? 

JB Mauney: I like Bruiser. And that was... 

Chris Powers: He was the most perfect bull you'd ever seen?

JB Mauney: For me. 

Chris Powers: What does that even mean? 

JB Mauney: I mean, he bucked a lot of guys off, but if you did ride him, you were mid to high 90s. Not a mean bone in his body, and he's a big old pet, but he did buck. I had him three times, rode him all three times. The first time... 

Chris Powers: He never bucked you off? 

JB Mauney: Rode him all three times. First time I rode him was in Las Vegas at the World Finals. Soon as the whistle blew, he whipped my feet behind me, hit me in the side of the head, broke my jaw. The second time I rode him was a year later at the world finals, and the whistle blew, and he jerked me down and hit me and broke my collarbone. And the third time I rode him was in Billings, Montana. And that was the only time I got away from him. I mean, the way he bucked, he was just... He hit quite a few people in the head because, I mean, he had a lot of air to him. Like, he would blow way up in the air. And if you got out of time, he was going to make you pay for it. 

Chris Powers: This might be a dumb question. Is there like a ground strategy for when you land, or is it just like get the heck out of the way as quickly as possible? Or are you like trained to do something? 

JB Mauney: A lot of guys, that was- Dismounting is not my forte. I was never very good at it. A lot of guys now I see when they're teaching bull riding schools, they're also teaching pretty much the correct way to tuck and roll. You hit the ground, roll, get up and going. And I was horrible at it. Like, I never got nervous riding bulls until the whistle blew, because then I had to figure out how to get the hell off of them. And I was not very good at it. My wife would tell you, I don't worry about him till the whistle blows. And the bullfighters would even talk about how bad my dismounts were. 

Chris Powers: I've watched a lot of videos where you're like riding that thing for another five or six seconds past the whistle. 

JB Mauney: Oh, yeah. Trying to pick my spot to get off or trying to get my hand out of my [?]. And then one thing, after I broke my hand, my dismounts got even worse because my pinky don't work. So they had everybody call it the hook. Well, that would hang in the handle of my bull rope. So I'd pull my tail, have it all loose, and have it pictured in my mind going way differently than it came out. Because I'd pick my leg up and go to step off, and that would hang on the handle of that bull rope. Well, and it would hang. You might as well engage the slingshot because it’d just jerk you right back to them. And I'd always tell the bullfighters, because, I mean, when they give you crap about dismounting bad, you dismount bad because their job is to save you. And I'd get them in all kinds of wrecks. And they'd always be mad and start talking crap to me. And I'd always tell them, man, I'm what you refer to as job security. I said, if everybody rode good and dismounted good, you guys wouldn't have a job. 

Chris Powers: I keep you in business. 

JB Mauney: I said, so at least y'all know when I'm nodding, you better be on your toes. 

Chris Powers: Okay. You rode Bruiser three times, but it took you the 13th to ride Bushwhacker. 

JB Mauney: Well, it was, I think, the 11th time I rode him. I got on him two more times. He bucked me off. 

Chris Powers: Okay, you rode him 13 times. 

JB Mauney: I attempted 13 times. 

Chris Powers: Was it only one that- I know it was just one that you rode, but I really haven't ever watched the other 12. Did you ever even come close on the other 12? 

JB Mauney: Twice. 

Chris Powers: And what, like a couple milliseconds? 

JB Mauney: Oh, I was probably in Louisiana. They had a challenger minor league event, and I got on him both nights. 

Chris Powers: Why was he the hardest to ride? 

JB Mauney: Well, one, you never knew what he was going to do. He never- I got on him 13 times, and he never did the same thing twice. But if you watch him... see, I'd always go home, and whether I got bucked off, whether I made the whistle didn't matter. I'd put each ride in slow motion and watch him jump for jump, to figure out what I needed to work on to be better. Well, that bull, you watch him in slow motion, you'll figure out what makes him hard. A lot of bulls, like they had a big gray bull that HD and Dylan and them raised, Long John, he would jerk a lot of people down and hit them in the face. But it's because of the way he bucked. He would rear, and he had so much rear, his front end would come up so high, and then he would drop. Well, if you weren't in time with him and you got behind, when he dropped, you hit the end of your arm. Once you hit the end of it, there's only one place to go. You're following it. And he jerked quite a few people down. But Bushwacker, he had the same amount of rear, but when he was rearing, he was going forward at the same time. So he was going up and away from you. And so, it made it a lot harder to stay where you needed to be because when he’d rear, like when a bull rears, your job is to climb up and out over them. And a lot of guys-  

Chris Powers: What’s that like in practice, like you're pulling yourself- 

JB Mauney: Just depends. Sometimes you push. You push yourself up there. But you run your knees in them and kind of drive out over them. So if that bulls, you think about it, if that bull's front end is going up like this, you got to be going up like that, too. Because if you're here straight up and down when he's rearing, when he breaks and drops over, you go back and then you're going to follow his head, and that's when you start losing teeth and things of that nature. But he was, like Long John, he didn't- when he reared and dropped, there wasn't that much distance from one jump to the next. It was just mainly up and down straight power. Bushwacker, when he shot out of that bucking shoot and reared, he would go 10 feet before his feet hit the ground. So it was like most bulls- He's about the only one I've ever seen do it like that. Some bulls will shoot out of there, but they just shoot straight out. He would rear. He'd be going up and away all at the same time. And that's why, like when he'd leave there, you would climb out over him when he'd go to rear. But being able to stay up there was what was the hard part. Because as he's coming up, he's going away. So, it's just constantly wanting to raise you up and get you back. Well, then he had so much rear, and then when he dropped, you'd be- First time I got on him, he freaking jerked me down, flung me around his head. They had been talking him up. And so, we were in California somewhere, and it was a draft in a short round. And I walk up there and they've been talking him up, being the baddest one going and everything. So I said, let's try that one. Let's see what he's all about. And he knocked the piss out of me. The pictures on everything. The bottom of his feet are probably that high off the ground. I'm arm length above him and my feet are in front of him. I'm stretched out above him. He jerked me down and hit me. When he hit me, it flung me back up in the air. I come down, my hand was still on my rope. He stomped my legs, jerked me loose. I don't know how it didn't break my leg. Still this day, I don't know how it didn't because my legs crisscrossed. Because when he jerked me around there, my legs crisscrossed, and he stepped like on the inside leg and it buckled the other one. I don't know how I didn't break it. And I got up, and my first thought was, okay, he's for real. All right. Then it just got to where it was kind of a pride deal. And I had him in Louisiana at the minor league deal. And that was a deal, like my bull riding, it was a long round, short round. Well, long round, short round, whoever was the high man got to get on Bushwacker after that. So he was your third bull of the night. And so, he's a bounty bull. Well, I was the high man each night. The first night I nodded, barely got to the end of my nod before he hit me in the face, split my chin open. Second night I rode him like seven seconds, a little over seven seconds. And he bucked me off. I rode him seven seconds at Arlington, at Cowboy Stadium. And then I got on him at Decatur, another minor league deal. I was the last guy out. They were jamming that place out, outdoor arena. I frickin’ nod and jump up there, they come trip the gate. The gate swings open and the breaker trips, all the lights went out. And I didn't make it till the lights came back on. He drove my head in the ground out through there. And that was- the man that- Julio Marino raised him from California. He raised him, he owned him. But Kent Cox, a guy that he's now passed away, but lived in Stephenville, he hauled him. He was like his handler. He hauled him everywhere. And that was always a joke between me and Kent. He'd always look at me, remember when he kicked the lights out that night? I said, yeah, I was tied to him. My first thought was when the lights went, when it went dark, my first actual thought was, oh, shit, I can't ride him in a lit up arena, and now I'm tied to him in the dark. And it didn't work out very good. He about knocked me out, he drove my head in the ground so hard. 

Chris Powers: How many- I mean, you can brag on yourself or answer it however you want, but like, how many championships did you walk away from by just picking the bulls? Like there was probably so many times where the obvious answer was just ride that bull for 85 points and you got this thing won or whatever it was. 

JB Mauney: Like I said earlier when we were eating, if I want to be a businessman, I’d have chose a way different line of work. And I went about bull riding completely with pride. There was no business in it. Yeah, it was cool. I was making enough money to make a living. That was just extra. And I always wanted to be able, like no matter what happened, I wanted to say I did it on my terms, in the way I wanted to do it. I wasn't going to try to take the easy route. I wasn't going to do that. Which I'm not saying is right or wrong. That's just the way I wanted to do it. I wanted to prove to myself, no one else, I didn't care what anyone else thought, but I wanted to prove myself that there wasn't a bull there that I couldn't ride. And I always told myself, the day I show up and there's a bull there that I think I know I can't ride, I'll quit and I'll never go back. 

Chris Powers: Two weeks ago or maybe last week, that bull, Man Hater, died. And I was at the stock show once, and I don't know the horse's name, but it was a bucking horse. And they did this whole ceremony. I mean, the entire audience is in tears. I had never even- I had no idea who that horse was. I was tearing up. I'm like- they sent it to this pasture. What is the gravity of when a bull like that goes out, like within the community? Is it like the death of a-?

JB Mauney: Oh, it's a bad deal, because people think it's animal cruelty. There's all kinds of crap people think about it. Those bulls do it because they want to do it. You can't make them do it. And it's like, an animal like him is part of your family. And what made that so bad, the man that hauled that bull and had the most to do with him just passed away not too long ago. 

Chris Powers: An older gentleman, right? 

JB Mauney: Gene Owens. 

Chris Powers: He had been doing it for 40 or 50 years. 

JB Mauney: And Gene was a good guy and he hauled Man Hater. And then once he passed away, they, [?] and Leanne, they had him and was hauling him. And I read comments. That's the one thing about social media I don't agree with these days. It gives everybody with a phone or a keyboard, they think their opinion matters. And I told somebody, I said, I wish you'd go back to the old school way. And they said, what do you mean? I said, somebody talks shit, they get hit. I said, but you can't do that now. Everybody thinks their opinion matters and they feel the need, they need to voice their opinion. Well, I've read comments. They pushed the bull too hard. They should have retired him. Well, if that wouldn't have happened and he would have won Bucking Bull of the Year this year three years in a row, then what would you have said? 

Chris Powers: And he was on his way to doing it. 

JB Mauney: Yes. And I've explained to Jagger, he's seven years old, but I've explained to him constantly, said, look, everything that's living is going to die. No matter what. There's no way around it. Everything. I said, you love your animals, you take care of your animals, but you better remember in the back of your head, one day it's going to be gone. And there's not a dang thing you can do about it. I said, so you better take care of them and treat them right while they're here. I said, because one day they're not going to be. And so, he understands it. Like, he gets it a lot better than most people do. And like that bull, that was just an unfortunate deal. 

Chris Powers: But, I mean, people are sobbing. Like, devastated. 

JB Mauney: Oh, yeah. A lot of them are.  

Chris Powers: How did you hear that? Like, I'm sure in your world, like is that just like a text that comes through? Like, how do you find out? 

JB Mauney: Gennaro, one of his buddies works the back pens, and he had texted him, said, Man Hater just broke his leg. And a bucking bull, you break your leg, that's a pretty bad deal. Depends on where it's at. 

Chris Powers: Well, same with a horse, right? 

JB Mauney: Yeah, pretty much, same with a horse. Some of them, if it's down lower, they can cast them. They probably won't ever buck again, but you could breed them and things like that. But his was up kind of higher. And I saw the video, and it was just he hit wrong one time and that was it. It was just like bull riders, just like me. I landed the wrong way one time. The next day I was a retired bull rider. 

Chris Powers: Well, the coolest thing about your story is the bull that retired you is retiring on your place. That's actually pretty cool. 

JB Mauney: Everybody, no hard feelings? I said, about what? I was like, he's a bucking bull. 

Chris Powers: Serious question. Was there any dark days after where you're like, shit, man, this is over?

JB Mauney: Oh, yeah. 

Chris Powers: Did you still get the urge? 

JB Mauney: Every day. Only on days that end in Y. I asked him a while back, one of the sports med guys, I asked him, I said, hey, if I was to get on one more, what would my odds be? He said, not very good. And I said, man, it's hard not to scratch the itch when I'm around it. I love bulls, and I love bucking bulls, and I love like doing those events we did that you came to. I love it. If I could do it every day, all day, that's all I'd do. 

Chris Powers: So that's how I want to spend the rest of the conversation. Bucktown is, what do you say, it's built by bull riders for bull riders. What is your vision for the sport if you had it your way going forward? Like, what do you hope happens? 

JB Mauney: I've always said that when you take the fun out of something, it becomes a job. Last time I checked, no bull rider in the entire world wants a job. That's why they chose to ride bulls for a living. That's why I chose to ride bulls. I didn't have anybody telling me what to do or when to do it or how to do it. I rode bulls. And I've realized over the years that social media, more TV time, they've taken away from what it used to be, adding the team events in. Bull riding is not a team sport. You can call it a team sport, but when they nod their head, it's all on them. It's still individual. I can't help the [?] ride the bull. He's got to do it. And I've kind of- like the atmosphere, the whole nine yards, everything's changed. When I first came around, it was fun. And you better be a tough son of a gun or the last place you wanted to walk into was that locker room, because them older guys were going to damn sure tell you about it. And that's why I had fun riding bulls, loved it. 

Chris Powers: As much when you were off the bull as when you were on? 

JB Mauney: Oh, yeah. It was all about the camaraderie, the hanging out. Now, I don't see much of that. Used to be the PBR started in January. In May was the last televised deal. May, June, July, they had what we called the summer run. We'd go almost every weekend, flying in and out of places, January till May. Well, when that last televised deal was done, we loaded up my truck and camper, and there'd be eight or ten of us in it. And I wouldn't go back to North Carolina. I'd show back up three months later, stay gone for three months straight. And you could go to bull ridings just, I mean, we'd be as far north before you get into Canada, as far south before you get into Mexico. And like the way it usually worked out, the last bull riding we were at before we would drive back to North Carolina, because Jerome had the last challenger event before the televised deal started was Malala, Oregon. So we'd be in Malala, Oregon. It was Friday, Saturday. Sunday, we would leave there, and we would drive straight through to North Carolina. And it was fun. We lived together. I still talk to Casey [?] and Brian Kenner. I talk to them at least once or twice every week or two. Casey lives in Kansas. Brian still lives in North Carolina. But if you saw one, you saw the other ones, because we went everywhere together. We traveled everywhere together, we roomed together. And you don't see that anymore. Like, it's pretty much like, well, they fly in, they fly out, and that's it. 

Chris Powers: What would like a week- Run me through like a typical week. Because even just being here in Fort Worth, it's like they'll ride, then they're driving down to Waco for the next day, then they're back here by night. So, what would be like a really busy week? What would that look like travel wise? What would your schedule look like? 

JB Mauney: I remember one year, I collapsed my lung. I was home for six weeks. When I went back, it was right in the middle of the summer. 

Chris Powers: That's where they stuck the huge tube up and around? 

JB Mauney: Went the long way around to get to my lung. 

Chris Powers: Because why not? 

JB Mauney: Yeah. So the first one I entered when I went back was Salinas, California. And it was, I want to say it was a Wednesday, Thursday bull riding. I think I was up Thursday. So, I flew to Salinas, rode Thursday night. I was in Tulsa Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Cheyenne, Wyoming, Monday, Tuesday. Livingston, Montana, on Wednesday. Yuba City, California, on Thursday. Weatherford, Texas, Friday. San Antonio, Saturday, Sunday. 

Chris Powers: All through the car or are you flying? 

JB Mauney: Flying, rental cars, any way I could get there. 

Chris Powers: And you were in a different league at this point. But like how the hell do most of these guys afford to rodeo that much? Like, it seems, that just that travel schedule alone is like a $20,000 week, just- Or maybe it's not that much, but I don't know. 

JB Mauney: It could be. Win. 

Chris Powers: It just seems like it's very expensive and you’re everywhere. 

JB Mauney: You get sponsors, that helps out also. But we were in a meeting one time at the PBR, and some guys that weren't doing very good, they were kind of in the bottom end, and they were talking about the show up checks because I don't know if it's still the same, but back then when it was just the top 35 guys in the world, you got a show up check every weekend. Like if it was a two day, and I mean, it wasn't a whole lot, two day event, it was like 300 bucks, three day event, it was more, things like that. Well, them guys were whining and talking about the guys at the bottom of the pack could barely get by, paying with rooms and everything like that, that they should get paid more to show up. And they were talking about it, and I just politely raised my hand back there and they said, yeah. I said, isn't this a competition? They said, yeah, what are you talking about? I said, I've never expected to get paid for falling off. I said, that's why I try to stay on and win. I said, this isn’t kids soccer. Not everybody's getting a trophy. If it was that easy, everybody would do it. And so that's the way I looked at it. And the way they have the team series structured, those guys are making money before they- whether they make the whistle or not. And it's ruining bull riding. And I've told, when I was coaching, I told the GM, I said, you can tell a lot of these guys have never rode broke. And he said, what do you mean? I said, that's a whole different effort you put out when you crawl in a bucking chute and you spent the last dollar you had to pay your entry fees and you crawl in that chute and the only way you're getting home, the only way you're eating is to make sure you make the whistle. I said, that's a whole different amount of effort you put out. And I said, you can tell the people that has been in that situation and the ones that never have and never will be. I said, that's a whole different ball game. I said, when I was 14 years old, they told me if I wanted to do this, I better get a job. And so from the time I was 14, I worked. I worked at a ball bearing plant, I worked at McDonald's, I landscaped, I rode horses, I did anything to make money so I could ride bulls. And from the time I was 14 till now, I worked my ass off to get every bit of it, and most of it was working to get better at riding bulls. 

Chris Powers: And you called that ball bearing plant after you got your first big check, and you're like, I'm never coming back again. 

JB Mauney: Actually, I was leaving, [?] had a bull riding here in Fort Worth. And it was Friday, Saturday, and I was leaving. I'd been in Texas for about a month because I had a- They’d take me off the schedule if I needed to go and stuff. So I'd been gone for about a month. And I did okay, but not real good through that month. I mean, decent and [?] bull riding at Will Rogers. And we were driving home Sunday, and I won 25,000. And I called him and I said, hey, man, I appreciate that job and everything y'all did for me, but you can permanently take me off that schedule. I'm not coming back. I couldn't do it. That's one thing that drove me to ride good was because I realized at a young age that this was a do or die situation. You can tell somebody it is do or die, life or death situation riding bulls, but they don't understand it until it gets to that point. Well, I had to get the job at the ball bearing plant because that bull stomped me in the guts and lacerated my liver. And the surgeon told me- I didn't go to the hospital till the next day. I went home first. I knew I broke my ribs. 

Chris Powers: How do you figure out your liver's lacerated? Are you peeing like green or something? 

JB Mauney: No. Then that was one of the other things. Like, I wasn't peeing blood or anything like that. So I was like, man, I just broke a bunch of ribs. I could tell my ribs were broke, so I was like, there's not shit they can do for that. Wrap it up. So I went home the next day. The next morning, I couldn't hardly get off the couch. And I looked down, and it looked like you took a softball and cut it in half and stuck it on my stomach right there. And I was like, well, that can't be good. And so my grandma lived right by me, so I went to her house first. I said, what do you think ought to do? And I couldn't talk very good and I had no air, all them ribs. I raised my shirt, and she said, well, it wouldn't be a bad idea to go get checked out. So I went to the doctor's office. I didn't go to the hospital. Well, they look at it and they say, you need to go to the hospital. I drove myself to the doctor's office, drove myself to the hospital, walk in, they run that dye through me. And they went to freaking out. And next thing I know, I was getting neck braced up, headed in the ICU and all this stuff, and they never would tell me what the hell was wrong. And they're like, the surgeon will be in here. And I'm like, surgeon, for what? And finally, a surgeon walked in and it was a lady. And she's like, when did this- I said, what is going on? She said, you've lacerated your liver. And I was like, oh shit. And she said, when did this happen? And at that time, I was still on my parents’ insurance. I said, for insurance purposes or the truth? She said, what do you mean? I said, for insurance, I was at home working cows and got ran over. The truth, I was at a bull riding about three hours from here last night. And she said, last night? I said, yeah, probably happened about 8:30, 9 o'clock last night. She said, why are you just coming? I said, I got broke ribs, you can't do anything for that. And she said, well, your liver is almost split in two, like internally, like inside was cut almost all the way across. She said, you should have got up, made it five feet, it should have ruptured and you bled out right there. She said, you should have never made it out of that arena. And she said, there's no medical reason and no reason why you're alive, but for some reason instead of your liver rupturing, it just swelled up. That's what the knot was. 

Chris Powers: Oh really? 

JB Mauney: It had swelled up where there was bleeding inside it, it just swelled. And she said, there's no medical reason or reason why you're still alive. It should have ruptured. And I said, well, good thing it didn't. And that's when I had to get a job because I had bills coming in. And so, I got the job at the ball bearing plant. I worked there about a week or two. And I told someone, I said, boy, when I go back to riding bulls, they're going to have hell throwing me off. They said, why? I can't do that the rest of my life. Yeah. I was like, I can't do it. It drove me crazy. Because we were inside a factory all day. I can't stand being inside. You can ask my wife,  I get up early in the mornings, and I like staying outside. I like working. I like doing things. I can't just sit around all day. It drives me nuts. 

Chris Powers: So some people when we were out at Bucktown, they said, this is the greatest, like the whole setup is a bull rider setup. Why? Is it the way the pen... is this all your brainchild that was in your head? So this is the perfect- 

JB Mauney: The platforms and things like that where y'all were standing, that's Randy's stuff. 

Chris Powers: Oh, dude, that was so awesome. 

JB Mauney: But the back pens, all those pens that are behind it and everything, the way everything connects, when I was younger, all I ever wanted, I've rode horses and roped and did all that, but all I ever really wanted to do was ride bulls, just be a bull rider. And I thought to be a better bull rider, I had to not only get on practice bulls, but work cattle, work bulls every day. So that's all I did. So I went to setups that wasn't worth a shit and was sketchy and about to get everybody killed. And then I've been to some setups that were nice. And over the years, I've just paid attention to everywhere I'd been and how things were set up and what made it flow easier. And when we started, that's what Randy, he was over the platforms and all that. And I said, I'm the guy, like if you need to know which way to hinge a gate, which way it needs to swing so those bulls will flow and load better, I'm your guy. And so, we started. And the welders that helped build that, welded all that together, they started in ’21, and they're still out there welding now. 

Chris Powers: Is there just like a master plan, or do you just keep coming up with new ideas? 

JB Mauney: I keep coming up. I told them at first, I said, we'll start on this side, work our way around. So we got there. Well, I mean, they would go do odd and end different stuff, build stuff with people and things. And then like last time, I called them, I said, got an idea. And it was a big idea. I'm adding more pens out back on top of the hill, big pens. There'll be... 

Chris Powers: Why? 

JB Mauney: So I can have bigger traps to turn more bulls out in together. There will be 11 pens, a 16 foot alley all the way around the outside of the pens, a 16 foot alley right down the center of the pens. On the right side of the alley, there'll be six pens. Each one of them is 130 by 175 apiece. And then the left side's got four pens the same size. The fifth one is a little bigger and shaped different because the hill kind of dropped off. So we run along the hill. But it'll be- You can stack a lot of bulls back there. 

Chris Powers: So you have the perfect setup. And you're like, this is for bull riders. 

JB Mauney: Oh, yeah. 

Chris Powers: So I could sit here and say, well, the rodeos are for bull riders or PBR’s for bull riders. Like, what, if we sat here in like a few years and you absolutely hit your vision, like what's going to be happening for bull riders? Like, what's the vision of the Bucktown? 

JB Mauney: I don't know where it's going to go, but like I told Randy, I said, everything we do is going to be old school. 

Chris Powers: And old school means?  

JB Mauney: Like now you watch the PBR, they got the replay clock or replay. They got a replay judge watching the replay in slow motion. You got two bag judges, two other judges. They go to tenths now, 0.2. I've never even heard of that. Oh, he made a great ride. He was 85.2. It don’t make sense. And I said, everything's old school. I said, there's no replay here. There's no damn replay button to challenge a ride. I said, if the- There's two judges. I said, if one of those judges calls you for slapping a bull and you didn't, sorry about your luck. If a judge doesn't call you and you slap a bull and you got by with it, congratulations. You win some, you lose some. It's all part of riding bulls. And I said, I want to create something that bull riders have fun and want to go to. I say it now, like some places guys feel obligated, they have to go. But I've tried... fly and fly out. There, it's old school. It's outside. I mean, you've seen it. I got coolers full of beer sitting everywhere. I've got coolers full of Monster, coolers full of water. Like, if you want a beer, drink a beer. If you want a Monster, there's Monster. If you want a water, that's fine too. 

Chris Powers: You forgot about the eight bottles of tequila. 

JB Mauney: Well, yeah, that was up top. That's for the VIPs. I like to have a good time and I like everybody else to have a good time. And... I told everybody, I said, look, the number one rule at Bucktown is there are no rules. Because nobody can tell us how to do this. We get to do it however we want to. And I told the judges, I said, look, if you think the bull stumbled or you think he hipped himself, give him a re-ride. I said, we're re-ride friendly around here. I said, because I promise you, I got plenty of bulls to buck. And I said, so don't be stingy. Don't- I said, if you think they might deserve a re-ride, tie goes to the runner, give them a re-ride. And I said, I want guys to come here, get on good bulls, and have fun doing it. 

Chris Powers: We talked about this that day, and I was like, this is all subjective. So what, it is an 87 and a half- what's the difference sometimes between... And you said something like, well, I know, I remember what it was like to always come in second when I thought I had won. But then you became number one. And you're like, I probably got a few bumps along the way too. 

JB Mauney: Yeah, paid your dues. 

Chris Powers: So how does scoring... I get it's 50 and 50. Is it even possible to get a hundred? Like, is that kind of weird that they created a scoring system you could never actually even get to? 

JB Mauney: There's only one recorded 100 point bull ride... It wasn’t a 100 point bull ride. 

Chris Powers: It was just the judges at the time? 

JB Mauney: Yeah. I mean, it's each to his own, like who's watching. It's kind of like me. I like that color. You don't like it. I mean, it's the same thing. It's human error. And so sometimes the judges get it right, sometimes they don't, but that's part of it. And now, they've kind of made it where with that replay button and everything, it's not old school anymore. It's too technical. I told them, I said, man, they're taking everything cowboy out of it. 

Chris Powers: They’re trying to make it too efficient. 

JB Mauney: Yeah. And they're trying to make it too mainstream. And the thing is, right now everything's going western, the amount of people that watch Yellowstone and all that. Everybody wants to see that kind of stuff, and they want to watch it. And we had so many comments on just the videos that we posted in which we're going to try to get it to where we can live stream them. I doubt we'll have it done by next week, but that's on the bucket list to get finished and completed. Get good enough strong Wi-Fi down there where we can live stream them. 

Chris Powers: Starlink, have Elon send in some... 

JB Mauney: And I just- Randy had a call with somebody. They're wanting to kind of televise it, put it on a- And I said, hey, I said, that's fine. I said, but you better remind them I'm going to smoke cigarettes and I'm going to drink beer wherever and whenever I want to. 

Chris Powers: And that's fun. That's why it's going to sell. 

JB Mauney: And I said, because... 

Chris Powers: Marlboro reds only?

JB Mauney: Oh, yeah. And when I got- the last year I was riding in the PBR, I just... I didn't even like being there anymore. 

Chris Powers: Would you have liked the rodeo series? Like, are they both kind of going that direction, or is rodeo-? 

JB Mauney: I had a lot of fun at rodeo. 

Chris Powers: So PBR is just too corporate. 

JB Mauney: When I stopped going to PBRs and started rodeoing, I was having a blast. We bought an RV. Jagger and Samantha went everywhere I went. Between rodeos, we can do whatever the heck we want to, stay at a campground somewhere and do whatever. And man, I was having... I was back to having fun riding bulls because it was- Bull riding was always fun, but outside of riding bulls was back to being fun. And when I was- the last year I went to those PBRs, it was like I was going to a job. I'd fly out, get there, I'd sit in the locker room. Then they'd bitch at me if I wanted to drink beer. They'd bitch at me if I was smoking. They wanted to try to fine me for smoking. And I had to watch eight son of bitches doing yoga. And I said, yeah, I outrun my generation. It's time for me to go rodeo. It just got to where it wasn't the same old school feel like that I got used to when I showed up, and none of the guys I traveled with were still riding. They were all retired. Like, yeah, there was younger guys that I hung out with and stuff, but it wasn't the same. Man, when I first started going to them, I mean, they were more fun than an individual should probably have. 

Chris Powers: And you think the younger generation wants that again? 

JB Mauney: Oh, you can tell. I mean, I'm not saying go out, get drunk and party and stuff, but having a good time doesn't mean you got to drink. And that's- 

Chris Powers: But it's the vibe. 

JB Mauney: Yeah, the vibe all the way around. It's laid back. And that's what I told him. I said, we're not rushing anybody. If somebody's taking too long in the bucking shoot for no good reason, you don't have to worry about rushing him because I'll chew his ass. I said, but we're going to be laid back. Just go with the flow. And the funny thing is, I've noticed the more they rush them, the slower they get. So, like, the other day, we bucked 40 some head of bulls in like two hours, not even. 

Chris Powers: It wasn't even dark yet. 

JB Mauney: Yeah, we went through all them, and that was sorting them in the back, making sure the right ones, because not everybody showed up for the long run. So we had... 

Chris Powers: What happens if you don't show up? 

JB Mauney: You don't come back. That was my rule. And I said, just laid back, have fun. And that's the one thing that matters. I've tried to tell all them young guys, I said, yeah, you got to take care of business. I said, but you’ve got to have the same- You got to have fun at the same time. So I said, you got one shot at this life, and you don't get another one. So you better make it count. 

Chris Powers: So, it'll be incredible competition series, televised broadcast. Can they just come out during the week and just like, are you going to run like practice? 

JB Mauney: Yeah, that's what I tell- People ask me, when do you buck practice bulls? I said, whenever somebody calls me. 

Chris Powers: So anybody can call you and just say, I want to come out. 

JB Mauney: Yeah, them guys will come out and tell me I want to buck some bulls today. How many do you want to get on? I'll have them at bay in the pens. Tell me what time you're coming, and I'll buck bulls. And usually, I'll get Scooby or one of the bull fighters, like Scooby's usually always around, and sometimes they're not around. If they're not around, I'll do it. 

Chris Powers: And you think the team thing, like you get it? 

JB Mauney: I get it. But it was... It kind of went against everything I believed riding bulls. I believed riding bulls that, I liked it because whether I was 90 or whether I was 0, it was all on my shoulders. I couldn't blame anybody else. Couldn't blame the bull. It was me. Nobody else caused me to ride that bull. Nobody else calls me to buck off of that bull. So everything was on your shoulders. And that's what I liked. And when they first started coming up with the idea of the team series, I asked them, I said, I'm not going to rely on someone else to stay on their bull to make my living. I said, that's not how this works. And they've changed it. Some guys like it, some don't, I don't guess. I mean, but it still boils down to the same thing. That's what I told the guys that were on the team that I was part of. I said, it is a team. I said, but it still boils down to the same thing. When you get in that bucking chute, you got to do your job. Doesn't matter what your team did. You got to do your job. 

Chris Powers: And when you're practicing, it's like if you're playing any other sport, you're throwing a football, you're just kind of, during practice, you can slow down. I'm assuming a practice ride is the same as a real- Like, there is no difference. 

JB Mauney: There's no difference. I mean... Some guys'll get- I mean, there'll be- 

Chris Powers: Is there a way to go easy during practice? 

JB Mauney: Yeah. Just weaker bulls. 

Chris Powers: Yeah. You just don't ride the big ones. 

JB Mauney: When I took the coaching gig, that first year I was a coach, I was wrecking them poor guys out left and right. I had to back off. I started buying bulls I wouldn't have bought because I was always known, like before I started taking the- or took the coaching deal, before I started it, the only thing I had standing around there most guys didn't want to come get on because they were big and they were mean. I like mean bulls. And so, guys didn't want to come there and get on them. And when I took the coaching deal, I was like, I think I can't kill these guys off. Like, I need these guys. And so, I kind of had to pump the brakes a little bit and back off. And I bought some bulls that were just, you call them just taters, just good ones to get on that weren't mean, weren't going to try to wreck you out when you hit the ground and were just honest, just good. And I got to thinking about it the other day, I said, well, I'm not a coach anymore. So, it's back to old school. We're going to go back to getting the big [?] and the mean ones again. 

Chris Powers: So are most people calling you, saying, will you coach my kid or will you-? 

JB Mauney: I get asked a lot to do bull riding schools and things like that. 

Chris Powers: What do you learn in school? 

JB Mauney: The fundamentals pretty much. I mean, there's different schools that guys put on and do, and there's bits and pieces out of one that I would say a man could use. There's bits and pieces of... I've helped with a few and put some on. But the way I do it now is I try to price it to where they won't hire me. And the one reason is I don't have a very good filter when it comes to riding bulls. And if I do a bull riding school and you got 10 guys, 10 kids show up, there's going to be probably two there that actually want to be there for the right reasons and to actually get better. Well, then you're going to have probably five there that just say they wanted to come to your school just to say they went. And then you'll have three there that their parents are living through them. And I cannot deal with it. I can't. I was never, not one day in my life was I ever pushed to ride. The only time I ever turned anything out I was riding sheep. I was little. Like, I rode sheep three to five. And they had the sheep riding towards the end of the rodeo. Well, I'd been playing with all my friends and everything, and I got tired. And I didn't want to get on. I was little bitty and was tired, didn't want to get on. And my dad told me on the way home, he said, that's it. I said, what? He said, if you ever turn out again, we'll never come back. That's all he had to say. I never turned anything else out ever. And it's just, everything's different now. 

Chris Powers: Is that- So I'm assuming that's how you're approaching it with Jagger. Like, he took to it on his own. 

JB Mauney: Yeah, he did. He was around it. 

Chris Powers: Does he want to be a professional bull rider? 

JB Mauney: Oh, depends on what day it is. He's probably Zorro right now. He's on the Zorro kick right now at the moment. The other day I came in, he's like, guess who I am? And then I have to go through about 12 different Western actors, figure out which one he's talking about. And he's on a Zorro kick right now. And one day he'll be on a Doc Holiday kick, and then the next day he’s Wyatt Earp, and the next day, I mean, he's Lone Ranger. There's no telling. And some days he's all of them in one day. He changes outfits about every 15 minutes... And then he rides. He'll come over and ride his ponies, and he's playing like he's Zorro and just having a blast. And then one day he'll call me, I want to get on my calves. Okay. Because I'm not going to push him. I mean, it's his decision. It’s not mine. I was never pushed to do it. And like the school deal, like I've done a few, and I about got into it a couple times with some parents, and that's when I decided I was not going to do it because I was going to end up getting in a fight. Because, I mean, I'm like- I loved riding bulls. Loved it. But I'm not pushing Jagger to do it because bull riding is not for everyone. And I'm not going to make him do something that could end up getting him killed. He's got to want to do it, and he's got to love it. So it has nothing to do with my decision. People say, do you want Jagger to ride bulls? I was like, it's not my decision. Oh, you're going to let him? You're going to let the sport that crippled you up and did all this and done that? And I said, yeah, the same sport that gave me everything I have to my name. So you want me to tell my son not to follow in my footsteps and if he loves it, no, you can't do that, because you might get hurt? I said, he doesn't live in a bubble like the rest of the kids in this world. I said, I don't care what he does as long as he does it with 110%. I've told him, like he'll get on them calves and he's hit that ground pretty hard a couple times. And I don't baby him too much. That's one problem. I think parents baby their kids too dang much, and then they're babied their entire lives. And then they get out in the real world and the answer is no, and they don't know how to deal with it. And I told Jagger the other day, he was wanting something, and I said, well, buddy, you better learn right now, you can want all day long, but what you get is maybe a lot different. I said, so you better work your ass off if you want things. And he hit that ground pretty hard. I walked out there. And it knocked the air out of him. He's kind of... And I put my hand out and he grabbed it, stood him up. I said, you all right? He's like, yeah, that hurt. I said, kind of looked like it hurt. I said, see that gate over there? I know, I can whine about it on the other side of it. I said, better get to walking then. Because I told him, I said, in that arena, you're the toughest person alive. Once you walk through out of that gate, you can lay down and cry if you want to. It don't make a damn out there. I said, but in that arena, you get up, you walk out like nothing ever happened. I said, inside the arena, you're the toughest human on the face of the earth. As soon as you walk through that gate and close it, nobody can see you, you can do whatever the hell you want to do. But, I mean, that was drilled into my head also. You get up and walk out of the arena unless your legs are broken. And if they are, you better crawl. 

Chris Powers: Is that still going on in the sport? 

JB Mauney: Somewhat. I mean, it's weakened. 

Chris Powers: What's like the cowboy code? Like you have to take the re-ride and you have to walk out of there. 

JB Mauney: Yeah. I mean, a lot of people don't take the re-rides now. They play the odds. And the team deal, that was the hardest pill I had to swallow. Because in a team, it's not a sprint, it's a marathon. You got five guys getting on. So 90% of time, if they rode three out of five, you were going to win that game. Well, like the first week I'm coaching, I was at an event in the coaching position, one of the guys rode and was like 76 or 78 points. And they're like, well, he's got the option of a re-ride. And we already had three rides. And the CEO of the team was yelling from the top of back there at me because he knew what I wanted to do. And I was sitting there looking at him. They said, coach, what is it? And I was like... Somebody said, how painful was that for you? I was like, I lost all my pride. I was like, man, it just went against everything I ever believed. Like, if I had the opportunity to win, I was going to try to win. If they were going to give me another one to get on to win, I was going to get on that one to win. Like I told you earlier, if I was sitting second, all you gotta do is keep score. Well, I didn't come here for second. Let's go for first. 

Chris Powers: And that's just the only way you've ever done it? 

JB Mauney: That's how I went about it. Everybody said, oh, he's a gunslinger, he's this, he's that. No, it's just the way I wanted to go about it. I went at bull riding more with pride than I did anything else, and it didn't have anything to do with the other people or anybody else. It had to do with me. I wanted to prove myself, to prove to myself that they didn't have a bull there that could throw me off. And no matter how hurt I was, I could still ride them. 

Chris Powers: Do you realize, you obviously know that's like a unique way to live life. Like, you speak about it like, it's like, well, duh, this is what you would do. Have you been... Is that just how God made you? 

JB Mauney: I guess that's how I was made. 

Chris Powers: I mean, because it's... like all the story is like the most focused person, one of the most focused people I've ever talked to. 

JB Mauney: Everybody always asks me, what's the plan after bull riding? I said, so you want to know what plan B is? They're like, yeah. I said, make plan A work. That was the reason I took the coaching deal in the first place. When they called, I was sitting at home in a neck brace, and I knew my bull riding career was over.  And I was thinking, what the hell do I do now? Because, I mean, there was no backup plan for JB. I put all my eggs in that basket, and that's the way we went. And that's why I took it, because I was like, man, what do I do now? And I was kind of- I was worried. Shit. I had a wife, kid. And I was like, man, I can't- The only way I knew how to make a living for the past 20 years of my life is gone. And I was like, oh, shit. And so, I took the gig. But now, like, I couldn't do it anymore. It's like having a job. ...I never was good at having a job. I mean, I would do it long enough to make sure I had some money stashed back so I could go ride bulls. And then if the bull riding didn't go so good, I'd go find another job. 

Chris Powers: You have Bucktown. Is there anything left in the sport or is there anything else in the sport you want to be a part of? Like, is there any unfinished business anywhere? 

JB Mauney: Not really. I would rather stay right there and put on bull ridings. 

Chris Powers: And real quick, on Stephenville, is Stephenville the capital, the cowboy capital just because all the cowboys are there? And it's just like the Mecca? 

JB Mauney: Every corner you turn’s got a roping pen. 

Chris Powers: Just getting out to Bucktown, it was like rodeos going on everywhere. 

JB Mauney: Everywhere. There's not as many bull riders around there, but there's a lot of team ropers, things like that, that are around there, and calf ropers. And so there's an arena on every corner you turn. 

Chris Powers: I think I told you I’d been following for a while, but it was the Bushwhacker video that I was like, dude, Katie, can I just go meet- I just want to be friends with JB. 

JB Mauney: When they gave him – what do they call it? The PBR does... it's called a brand of honor. And then I guess he got it. He received it, and Kent had passed away, the handler, Julio, called me, and he goes, hey, at Vegas, they're giving him the brand honor. Would you talk about him? Besides Kent, you know him, you got on him more times than anyone. And Julio and I are really good friends. And I immediately said yes. Well, then the closer I got to the time we were going to Vegas, I was sitting there thinking to myself, I said, I got to get up there and talk good about a bull that kicked my ass 12 out of 13 times. And if I'd of had to ride him 8.2 seconds, he'd have kicked my ass 13 times. And I was like, man, I don't know how to do this. So I got up there and they had him on the stage because, I mean, he was a pretty gentle bull. But I didn't realize till that day that his brand was 13. I never looked at it. I never- Because he's just always Bushwhacker. So I never looked at his brand. And I was standing there and I happened to look. And I said, Julio, I said, is this brand 13? He said, yeah, why? I said, I got on him 13 times. And that's what I told them on the mic. I said, I said, Julio asked me to do this, and I told him I would because we're friends. I said, but then I got to thinking about it. I got to get up here and talk good about a bull that's kicked my ass 12 out of 13 times. And it went pretty good, though. It was a pretty cool deal. But I didn't realize his brand was 13 till that day. I'd been on him I don’t many times and never looked at his brand. 

Chris Powers: And why did you... When was the last ride? Did it just end because they retired him or just-? 

JB Mauney: Just retired him. Nothing... He wasn't hurt. He... just got older. 

Chris Powers: And how they move bulls around, did you know when you would see him? Like, how many- do they skip rodeos? 

JB Mauney: Yeah, depending on parts of the country, like in the northwest, you'll see a lot of the same bulls. Central, you'll see a lot of the same bulls. East coast, you'll see them. They'll sprinkle ones in and out of there. But the thing is, like him, you didn't- You wanted to haul him enough because he was in running for bull of the year, but you didn't want to haul him too much. He's just like, those bulls are just like the bull riders or athletes. You do something every weekend and travel that many miles between each one of them, eventually you're going to need a little break. There's quite a few times when I was rodeoing, and we were Cheyenne, the bull hit me in the face in the short round. And it looked like you'd put a golf ball on my cheek right here, broke my cheek and just stuck out there. My face was swelled up. And I woke up the next day, and Samantha's like, what time do we got to leave to go to New Mexico? I said, we can leave whatever time we want because we're going back to Stephenville. She said, why? I said, I need a break. Like I was beat all to hell. And so, we came home. I stayed there a week, maybe two weeks. And then we left back out and drove all the way to Kennewick, Washington. And the first bull I got on stepped on my face, stepped right here, knocked me out, tore my dang face all up, knocked some teeth out. I said, gosh damn. But I think a month after that, I was in Iowa at a rodeo, and the bull stomped me, both back feet in my belt line. And I finally went to the, same kind of deal, went back to the room, and about 5:00 morning, I wasn't doing so good. And a little bitty hospital there. And I went in and they said, they asked me what happened. I said, a bull stepped on my back right in my belt line. They said, do you have any bruises? I said, I'm going to go ahead and tell you I don't bruise for some reason a whole lot. I said, but I don't really know because I can't see my back. And I pulled my shirt up and they said, well, you got two red marks. That's what I'm telling you, I don't bruise. And they did the same thing. They run a dye through me and stuff. And I was bleeding out, kidney was lacerated. They come in there freaking out. They said, sir, we're life flighting you to Iowa City. I was like, for what? You're bleeding out right now. Your kidney’s lacerated. And we're not set up for trauma like that. So once again, Samantha was in Ellensburg, her and Jagger with the RV. I guess I should have just skipped Ellensburg. Because when I broke my neck, that's where she was at. When I lacerated my kidney, that's where she was at. So I was supposed to fly back that next morning to Ellensburg. And so, Samantha wakes up. I sent her a selfie while I'm on the life flight, hooked up to all that shit. I took a selfie and I sent it to her. And I was like, I'm not going to make that flight back to Ellensburg. I'm on a little different flight. Well, by the time she wakes up, she calls me flipping out – what the hell's wrong? And she was- it scared her. And I said, I lacerated my kidney. She said, what's that mean? I said, I don't know. Surgeon's about to come in here and talk to me. I said, I'll call you back. They did another test when I got to Iowa City. Quit bleeding. He said, well, as long as it stays like that, just stay in here till lunchtime tomorrow. We'll turn you loose. 

Chris Powers: The funniest thing about you is like you speak about all these times where you just totally destroyed something inside your body, and then it's like a surprise. It's like, peekaboo... Like, most humans don't go through life ever once, like you know when you're hurt, you’re just like, I broke a rib. Nope, I'm bleeding out in my kidney. Like probably a dozen times throughout your career, it was like a surprise by the time you got to the hospital. 

JB Mauney: Oh, yeah, Like I always thought, well, I didn't know... I found out I broke my leg when I blew my knee out. I blew my knee out and they were messing with my knee and they messed with my leg too. And they said, when did you break your leg? I said, I didn't break my leg. They said, yeah, you have. Well, I guess that's why that thing hurts all the time then. I guess that's why I’m sore. But I don't know, I just always looked at it like, I'm just sore. I'll be all right, just keep on going. And there's no telling the amount of shit I probably have broke that I don't even know about. 

Chris Powers: Oh, I'm sure. I bet something's broken right now. 

JB Mauney: Probably. I know my dang toe probably is. A horse stepped on it the other night and just stood on it. But that's what somebody said, man, you need to just get them to do a full body x-ray and MRI of your body. And I was like, I don't want to know what's all... I said, it still works. I can get up, I can walk around, I can use my arms. I'm good. I was like, we'll just leave it alone. But that's what a lot of people said to me – you just talk about it like it's nothing. I said, well, I mean, I realized when that bull lacerated my liver, it happened early. I was barely, it was right before I turned 18. So, like I see a lot of kids, 16, 17, 18 years old, you're invincible. Nothing can hurt you. You know the dangers of riding bulls, but you still got a chip on your shoulder. Well, I realized it real fast. Like, okay, if I'm going to do this, I better mean it. That's not a joke anymore. This is for real. Because when you're 16, 17, shit like that, you're not doing it to make a living. You're doing it because it's fun and you love doing it. And that was a turning point when that- When he lacerated my liver and they told me all that, I realized right then, I was like, okay, if I do this, I better mean it and do it for real. 

Chris Powers: So when you said that, the guys that were at Bucktown, how many of those guys are on the like come up? Like, are they even- Are those all professionals, or is it just like an open, like anybody that wants to get on a bull? 

JB Mauney: Well, it's not- I mean, these guys have been on bulls. Like, there's going to be some young- a couple of them guys that was there when you were there, they were young guys that ride really good, have a lot of potential. 

Chris Powers: The guy that won is what, 21? 

JB Mauney: Yeah. Lacey. And he rides bareback horses and bulls and rides really good. And he rodeos. He's going to a bunch of PRC rodeos. But like next week or whenever the next one is, John Kramer's coming, Court McFadden's coming, Casey will be there again. Those guys are all on tour in the PBR. And then, you got some younger guys. Daniel Keeping, he's on tour in the PBR. He'll be there. And I got some younger guys that we invited to come that ride really good and I think would enjoy coming. Like, everybody we talked to, because I would ask everybody, what'd you think of the bull riding? And that was the most fun I've ever had. Even the bull riders, man, that was so cool. Like, that's badass. Like, we had fun. 

Chris Powers: Well, I've only ever watched it from the side, too. To see it from up above, looking down, that’s a totally different- Well, and just watching, that's a totally different experience. I mean, it is chaos. 

JB Mauney: Yeah. Them bucking shoots, that's why watching them in there, when you look down on them, you can see how muscled up they are, them bulls. Because standing back, looking at them, you can tell they're big, but you can't really see. You look straight down on them, boy, back about that wide, big old shoulders on them, and they go to mashing on you, that shit hurts. 

Chris Powers: And they're doing that, they're messing with you. 

JB Mauney: Oh, yeah, some of them. The young bulls, they just, they get fired up. They're ready to go just as much as a guy is. So sometimes they'll go to bucking in there, and hair triggered is what we call it. They'll kind of pull the trigger before it's time to go. But that's why a lot of guys send them to me, because that's what we work on, get them to where they're calm and stay calm until the gate opens. 

Chris Powers: Which was like Bushwacker. That's like you would always- You've said that multiple times. Like, he just didn't move in the shoot. 

JB Mauney: No. And I kind of hated it. 

Chris Powers: It was kind of his way of going, just wait, bro. 

JB Mauney: It was like slapping you in the face. Like, okay, get wherever you want. I'll move wherever you need me to. Whatever. I'm still going to slam your ass. 

Chris Powers: That whole time you were tipping, you had your like piece of paper in there. In Bucktown when they're ready, and you're just getting their chin up. 

JB Mauney: Just some of them. Some of them, I wouldn't. Some of them, I stay back. But like, you can tell them bulls, if they look at the back of the chute, you want them looking out, so if that gate opens, they don't turn out backwards, things like that. And I try to not use that paper as much, but I don't want to stick my fingers in there because a boy got his finger cut off a couple weeks ago over there. 

Chris Powers: Oh, really? 

JB Mauney: Horn, they smash your finger between that gate and that horn, your finger, you might as well just kiss it goodbye. I've seen a lot of guys get their finger just popped off. 

Chris Powers: How many times did their horn get just stuck in there and break? 

JB Mauney: Not very often. I've had a couple do it. 

Chris Powers: Do you have to trim their horns? 

JB Mauney: Their regulation size is 50 cent piece on the end of their horns so they don't stab in you. Because their horns are like your fingernails or toenails. They’re continuous. They continually grow. 

Chris Powers: Do they bleed if they get torn off? 

JB Mauney: Yeah, when you tip them, they'll bleed a little bit, some of them. All of them are different. Some of them's got solid horns, so you can tip them and there won't be anything. Some of them, you can tip them in the ends, you cauterize them, close them back up. But that's what the horns are, man, you got to watch them because their horns are hooked to their sinuses. And so, if they get a, oh, you tip one and... We call it hollow. You get saline flush, stick it in that horn and flush it, it'll run out their nose. 

Chris Powers: Oh really? 

JB Mauney: And that's how they get horn infections and stuff like that. So if you get one like that, we will flush his horn like every day, keep him on penicillin so no infection sets in, keep flushing that horn, and eventually it'll start growing the good tissue back in there and close itself back up. 

Chris Powers: Do they have a peak age where they're just in their prime? 

JB Mauney: Yeah, usually when they're three year olds, depending on their size, is when you usually start putting guys on them. That's when they're kind of, they're developing. Their muscles are getting big enough to hold the weight of a guy up. So about between three and four is when you put guys on them. And their peak like hauling age is 5 to 7 probably, some of them make it longer, some of them don't make it as long. It's kind of like athletes. How much wear and tear can you handle? Some bulls handle it way better. Some bulls don't. 

Chris Powers: And is there any- can you give them steroids or anything or it has to be all natural?

JB Mauney: Yeah, they'll test your shit... They'll test you. 

Chris Powers: They have to be all natural to ride them. 

JB Mauney: Supposed to be. Supposed to be. 

Chris Powers: Sometimes it happens. 

JB Mauney: Yeah. I mean, like I've gave them stuff like not steroids but like multivitamins, shit like that. We all the time give them that. 

Chris Powers: Yeah. What do they eat every day? Just hay? 

JB Mauney: Hay and grain. I got a special feed built for mine. I make a pellet out of the [?] company. 

Chris Powers: Is your goal to put these bulls in rodeos and have them be competing bulls? Do you have a goal with them, or is your goal to get them good enough and sell them to somebody else that might go do something with them? 

JB Mauney: Bingo. 

Chris Powers: Bingo. That's the industry. 

JB Mauney: Like, that's when I broke my neck, Danny Reagan's a guy that lives in East Texas, and he owns a rodeo company. And before I had shoulder surgery, I went and worked a rodeo for him, picking up bucking horses. And they called me. He said, hey, since you broke your neck, you going to get you a set of pickup horses, work my rodeos? I said, no. And he said, well, you want to be the bull guy on my card? I said, what do you mean? He said, I'll just put you on my card and you haul all the bulls to all my rodeos. I said, no. He said, why? I said, well, you just want me to be broke the rest of my life, man. I said, you can't make a living doing either. I said, I like staying at home, and I like working bulls. That's my thing. I like figuring them out, being able... you step off in there and you go to load them. When you open that gate and you go to step in that pen, you got to be able to tell which one's going to come at you, which one's not going to mess with. You got to be able to read them before you get in there. And that's the part I like. I like getting them calm. And I always say everybody sends me their problem bulls, bulls that are bad in a chute. We can't do anything with him. Well, send him over there, and we'll just work them every day. We try to get them calm. And some of them, they flip the switch and they're good. And then some of them, it takes longer, and some of them don't ever get out of it. 

Chris Powers: But... Is it a thousand different ways to calm them, or is there a certain...? 

JB Mauney: Yeah. I mean, the way you work them, like any animal, the slower you work them, the quieter you work them, the calmer they stay. And you go to whooping and hollering and moving too fast, it riles them up. They get fired up, and they go to tearing gates down and things like that. And that's what I've told Jagger. I said when you're around here, I said, just calm and easy, buddy. I said, don't be hollering and carrying on. Just slow and easy. And it's funny because sometimes he don't listen so good, but when he's over there and I'm working bulls... everything I say. Stay right here and don't move. Yes sir. Because he knows, like I'm telling him that for a reason, to make sure he don't get hurt. And because it's pretty easy, like I've told him, I said when you come over here, I said, you better pay attention because one knocks a gate open, you better be paying attention. 

Chris Powers: So what time do you wake up in the morning? 

JB Mauney: Just depends. 

Chris Powers: We don't count today. 

JB Mauney: If I'm in the bed at seven o'clock in the morning, I've slept in. 

Chris Powers: And then you're getting up. 

JB Mauney: Usually, I get up about, in a normal day, between 5:30, 6:30. Like, I don't even set an alarm anymore because I can set an alarm and 15 minutes before it goes off, I wake up. And it's like clockwork now.

Chris Powers: It's like that mental thing. Do you eat breakfast? 

JB Mauney: Sometimes. Most of the time not. Samantha and Jagger, they'll still be asleep when I leave. So there's a little country store, the BNB Country Store, I'll pull in there and I go sit in there and I finally got me a rain gauge so I get to talk to the man that owns it and the farmers around there about how much rain it got and I get me a big old cup of coffee, and some mornings I get me a sausage biscuit, some days I don't. 

Chris Powers: So what time are you at the spot? 

JB Mauney: Do what? 

Chris Powers: What time are you at the farm? 

JB Mauney: I'm usually there by 7:30, 8 o'clock. 

Chris Powers: And do you have a routine? Like as soon as you get there, you know exactly what you're doing that day, or is it kind of like what’s today got? 

JB Mauney: Yeah, I pretty much, I'll have a plan in my head of what I want to do and what order I'm going to do it. So usually I'll get there, and Genaro, he'll be feeding, and I'll go in the office, go through papers and crap, get everything ready and make sure everything's straightened out, wait on him to get finished feeding. Once he's finished feeding, then we start, either work this set of bulls or turn this set into a bigger pen, let them exercise, move around, play, or if we got to run something through a chute and doctor them, whatever needs to be run in. The past week, we've made trips back and forth from the vet because I got to take some bulls to the, it's the T&J Bucking Stock sale. It's a bull sale in Texarkana and it's the 22nd and 23rd, and I've got to take 29 bulls there. We got to get all the health papers, all that stuff on them. So it was back and forth from the vet, taking loads, dropping them off, testing them, picking that one up, taking another load, dropping them off. So, you take them one day, they do all the testing and then like two days later you got to take them back so they can read it. And so that's what we were doing last week, pretty much all week. And of course, one bull that I put in the sale, he was fine. I consigned him to that sale, and the next day he was crippled. Cut his foot on something, ain't no telling what it was. But I got him up, he'll be fine by the time the sale comes. 

Chris Powers: You just can't- That's [?] live animals.  

JB Mauney: It's about like anything else, the good ones, you might as well put them in bubble wrap and they'll still get hurt. A sorry one... No, you could turn them out in a pasture full of barbed wire just laying everywhere and they wouldn't get a scratch on them. 

Chris Powers: Isn't there something called like the ACCI or something? It's like a bucking...  

JB Mauney: Oh, the ABBI. 

Chris Powers: ABBI. Do you do that? And that's basically competition of you just buck your bulls. There's nothing, there's nobody on them. But it's how- 

JB Mauney: Well they do have rider competitions also. They're called classics. So, the ABBI is the American Bucking Bull whatever... the registry and everything. No, I don't. I mean, if I come across a calf like a 2 year old that I think could go win, I would send in his blood, get all the shit lined out, and that way I could enter him. So they got yearling futurities, they've got two year old futurities, and then classic bulls are like three to four year old bulls, and you enter your bull just like a bull rider would enter. So, they pay, it’s a competition. But for a guy to go and win one, like a two year old futurity, you better have a double rank ungodly bucking son of a gun to compete with [?] Trail and HD Page. Like they're on point when they come. And Brandon Stewart, Brandon Stewart's got a bunch of them. You better have the top of the line. Like this son of a gun better be short round material with a dummy at two years old, or you're not going to place. So I don't really mess with those. They're going to have one, they're going to have a classic at the house. 

Chris Powers: At your place? 

JB Mauney: They did them last year. Jay, the president of ABBI, I asked me if they could do them there. I said, yeah. He said, do you want to hire the back pen help, or you want me to hire it? I said, you hire it. I said, because this is your bull riding, and it's just at my place, so I don't have to do a damn thing but sit around and drink beer. So, the next buck jam’s the 18th, and April 1st, we'll have it. Well, then the ABBI Classic is the 4th. They're going to have it on April 4th, and then the 15th... and then 27th will be the other two buck jams in April and then we'll have two in May. 

Chris Powers: And the final one in May is the championship?

JB Mauney: Yeah, pretty much. It's just the same, it's the same as all the other ones. It's just whoever's got the highest average out of all six of them will get a $20,000 bonus. 

Chris Powers: And do you have to have competed in all six to make it to the final? How many, do you have to compete in a minimum amount of them? 

JB Mauney: Not right now. Because the guys at rodeo, like that's the problem. Because rodeos are, like Fort Worth, you can be up a Tuesday, Wednesday night. There's another young guy, Noah Lee, Mike Lee's son, rides really good. He was originally supposed to ride this coming Wednesday. And he called me, I think it was yesterday or day before, and said, man, I'm not going to be able to come Wednesday. They put me up in Mercedes on Wednesday. And I said, man, don't worry about it. Thanks for letting me know. And he said, I should be able to come to the rest of them, though. I said, all good, man. Like, I'm not- I understand things like that. At least he had enough respect to call me and tell me, not just not show up like the other ones did. That kind of irritates me. 

Chris Powers: We have them on a list. 

JB Mauney: Yeah, there's a black list for that one. Got to use black light to read it. 

Chris Powers: I want to come to the one on the first. It's April Fool's Day. Are you going to do something crazy? 

JB Mauney: I don't know. I don't know. We got to figure that out. I was thinking about that too. I thought about having like a- spring break’s this coming week. 

Chris Powers: That's why I can't go this week. 

JB Mauney: Yeah. I thought about having like a wet T-shirt contest, but my wife... put a hard no on that. I was going to let her be the judge and everything. 

Chris Powers: That just didn't make it through the committee? 

JB Mauney: Yeah, that didn't make it past HR. 

Chris Powers: So you make it to the very end. That'll be the first series. And if things go well, this could, obviously a season two and this can be picked up. Because the social media around it is unbelievable. 

JB Mauney: We've already had guys calling us wanting us to go put them on like at other places. Hey, I want to do y’all’s bull riding at our deal. 

Chris Powers: I was going to say, you'd have to move it out. It couldn't be there the whole time. 

JB Mauney: Not the whole time. But that's what I told Randy. I said if everything goes like we want it to go, I said, then we start another series, Bucktown on the road. 

Chris Powers: Bucktown roadies. 

JB Mauney: Yeah. And that's what I said. I like bucking them here at the house because we don't have to go anywhere. 

Chris Powers: And most people brought in- Those weren't all yours. People were bringing them in too. I met a nice lady. She was standing up top. Her husband, I can't remember her and her husband. She had a son that was Jagger's age. 

JB Mauney: Brandon and Kenzie Stewart. 

Chris Powers: Yeah, they were great. 

JB Mauney: He doesn't live very far at all. And that's the good thing about being in Stephenville. All those guys that brought bulls, none of them drove over past an hour and a half to get there. 

Chris Powers: And then they just take them to their house that night and that was it. That's just life. Bring your bulls. Take your bulls. The thing I kept looking back at is the way y'all must have had them fenced off. Everybody knew whose bull was who. It gets dark. There's 30 black ones. How do you know those are yours? I guess it's the brand, actually. 

JB Mauney: Brand. But I had them all stacked. Like that's before, before you got there and everything. That's why I was so hot sitting in that office when y'all got there. 

Chris Powers: You were out of breath when we got in there. 

JB Mauney: I had been sorting them bulls, stacking them in which pens they went in and because you got to kind of pay attention, you got to have a list. Because I'll ask them guys when they're bringing bulls. Well, send me your list. Tell me which deliveries and which bulls will pen together. That way, because you put three bulls in a pen and add a fourth one to them that don't pen with them, there's going to be some messed up shit around there. Because they don't intentionally tear shit up. It's when they go to fighting with each other, they're so big, they'll just push through crap. 

Chris Powers: And do they usually do well when they're around bulls they're familiar with, or like would you put two strangers together? 

JB Mauney: Probably not right at a bull riding. You try to mix them together before you go anywhere. Like at the house, if I got a new one that I think, he doesn't act like he wants to fight because you can tell. You can put them in a pen next to another bull and see if they fight through the fence, whatever. And then I'll try to mix them with them other bulls and I put them in a small trap, kind of let them mangle around, see if they're going to fight. And sometimes they'll push on each other, and they kind of figure out the pecking order. And then I just turn them out and they're pretty good then. It's like having 1700, 1800 pound three year old children... that want to just tear every damn thing up. Those fences out there, that's what I told somebody... Those fences out there, I said those fences don't stop shit. They said, what you mean? I said they just respect it. I said, if they wanted through that fence, hell, them sons of bitches would be the next county over by now. I said that's not stopping them. They respect it. If they wanted to, every one of them go walk up to it and jerk it and mangle that son of a bitch all over the place and then just keep going. 

Chris Powers: Is that probably why you love the sport so much, is because you respect the bull probably as much as it respects you? Do all the riders respect the bulls? 

JB Mauney: For the most part, yeah. 

Chris Powers: Or for some people, are they just animals that they have to get on or is it kind of a-?

JB Mauney: Well, a lot of guys now, like, you could tell some of the guys, hey, go load that bull. They wouldn't know how to do it. 

Chris Powers: Why? 

JB Mauney: Just they're more athletes that ride bulls. A lot of them do know. And I think your better riders are the ones that do know. And I've told Jagger, like Jagger’s talking about fighting bulls, and he's got a little bull fighting dummy. Kai had it made for him. And I get out there and it's got like a bull head on the front of it and it looks like, it's got wheelbarrow like handles. It's got one wheel, and I chase him around with it. And I told him, I said, you need to learn, like he was wanting to do tricks like all them, the guys that freestyle do. And I told him, I said, you don't do all the tricks, bud. I said, you got to learn the right way first. And so I was showing him, and I said, you know why this is important? I said, if you're not scared of them standing in front of them, you're damn sure not scared of them on their back. And I wasn't no great bullfighter or anything like that, but I wasn't scared of them. When we'd buck practice bulls and stuff like that, like, I'd step around them, get their attention and stuff like that. But I wasn't no Cody Webster, nobody like that, or I wasn't as good as the guys that were fighting bulls the other day at the house. But I could get by. I could make it work. But that was the thing. I wasn't scared of them. 

Chris Powers: And what makes them good is like they can anticipate what the bulls going to do, but they're willing to get like close enough to them because, dude, I mean, you're watching, it looks like that's a game of inches too. But for most, it's like they always miss. Every now and again, you'll see one get trampled. 

JB Mauney: That's the thing. Good bullfighters, you don't really notice them. Because they're smooth. They slip in, they slip out. They get the bull's attention and they're gone. And if you're not paying attention, you don't even really notice them. 

Chris Powers: But their job is as soon as you've hit dirt or as soon as they see you coming off... There's three of them, right, always? And they all know their spots. 

JB Mauney: Yeah, they work in like a triangle. And they all rotate the same way. Like, one will hit that bull's head, get his attention. And if he keeps going, the next one will grab him and then on and on. You can tell Clay and Colton, Scoob, they've been fighting those bull runs at the house together because they work good together. 

Chris Powers: Is there a best of all time?

JB Mauney: There is. 

Chris Powers: I’m not going to put you in trouble by making you say it. 

JB Mauney: Oh no, I'm friends with all them guys. Like in rodeo, Dusty Tuckness, he's won I don't know how many bullfighter of the year awards. They call him... It's voted. 

Chris Powers: By the bull riders? So you vote. 

JB Mauney: And that's the thing about like the NFR and the PBR finals. Those bullfighters have to be voted in. The riders vote who they want. 

Chris Powers: How do you even know? Like, if you had never seen the bull riders before and you just rode one ride, would you know in that eight seconds plus however long you're in the arena who is the best bull fighter? Like, are you seeing it in real time, or is it usually watching video after where you're seeing what they did? 

JB Mauney: You could see them a little bit, but sometimes, it's like hearing things, hearing music. Sometimes I could, sometimes I couldn't. If everything's going right, then it's smooth and just flowing along. You can kind of hear stuff. But if you're a little out of shape and everything's behind, it's a damn dog fight, you don't hear shit. And I've seen them bullfighters. I've talked to them. When the whistle blows and I grab my tail, if they couldn't get a bull to jump out of the spin, they would be talking to me, like, hey, go ahead, JB. We got you. I'm like, all right, here I come. And I got a lot of them in wrecks though because of my horrible dismounts. And I got a video somewhere of Dusty Tuckness and Cody Webster. Like, those two are pretty much top of the pile right now. But, I mean, you got the three guys that were at the house, Claymore, Cole Carlisle, Scooby, they're all jam up. It's hard to decipher who's the best. They're all good. And there's even more than that. There's a bunch of young guys that fight bulls really good. But we were at, I think it was Cody, Wyoming, and I got threw off. And I knew when I was coming off that I was probably going to land right in front of him. And when I hit, I felt the bull and I felt somebody else. So, I knew somebody was getting hooked on top of me. Well, when everything cleared in that bull run, I roll up, Dusty rolls up, and we're looking at each other, about from me to you sitting on the ground. I said, hey, Dusty. He said, hey, JB. We just got up and walked out of the way. It was funny because it was like every other rodeo... like, I got him in a wreck. He's like, well, yep, there's one down. We should be good next week. 

Chris Powers: Well, it's one thing to get bucked off and you're holding on and you know you're screwed. Then there's probably you get bucked off and before you even know what's going on, you can feel it. And then there's probably sometimes where you bucked off, maybe you think you're safe and then that bull comes back, like comes out of left field and just smashes you again. 

JB Mauney: Yeah, some of them bulls get smart. Like I said, they're smart. Some of them know exactly who was on their back and they can decipher who's the bullfighter and who was the bull rider. I've seen bulls do that, run right by a bull fighter that was trying to get his attention. Never even look at him and go right for the bull rider. I've seen them do that. Like, they're pretty smart, some of them. I was unfortunately the victim of one that knew exactly who was on his back because I hung to him for a long time. They couldn't get me loose. Yeah, I was in a pretty good bit of a bind. And I finally did come loose. And when I did, I was out in the middle of this arena. I was in no man's land. And I looked back over my shoulder. When I finally come loose, I got up and started jogging. I looked over my shoulder, the bull was at the out gate to go out of the arena, and there was 10 or 12 people standing between us. It was a long enough wreck, people were coming off the back of the bucking shoes to come try to help me, try to help get me loose because the bullfighters couldn't get me. And so, I'm thinking the bull’s going out of the arena. He was by the outgate. I'm like, oh, okay. And he had stomped my legs. My legs were beat all to hell. And I was kind of jogging, and something told me to look behind me. And I'm out in the middle of this arena, kind of just jogging off, and I look over my shoulder. They said, he ran around people...

Chris Powers: Just to get you. 

JB Mauney: And there he was. And I look, I take off running, and I realized, like I'm high stepping now. I'm trying to get some going. And I was like, I'm not going to make it anywhere before he catches me. So, I just slowed down and took it. And when I slowed down, he ran his head right up under my ass and threw my ass down 10 or 12 foot in the air. I hit the ground, and as soon as he hooked me, turned and walked right out of the arena. 

Chris Powers: That was his way of saying... 

JB Mauney: He was done. And I've had bulls do that. They act like they're mean as hell, hit one person and then just...  turn and walk out like a dog. Like, just gentle as all get out, walk right out of the gate. They just want to hit one person, and then they just turn and walk out. But that's when he threw me up in the air and I hit, when I went to get up... Somebody got a hold of him, he's like, you all right? I said, I'm glad that's over with. Gosh, damn. They said, well, he ran around people to come hook you. Because that's... I asked him, I said, when I looked back, he was on the other side of y'all at the out gate. And then I looked back over my shoulder and he was right behind me. And they said, yeah, he ran around. I said, he didn't want to hook the one of 12 people back there that... He hadn't touched at all. But he ran me down and hooked me again after he'd done been stomping me for about 25 seconds. Because it was kind of a bad deal. 

Chris Powers: You've ridden- how many times, how many bulls you think you've ridden? How many rides? Thousands? Is there one that stands out? Like, is there one ride that maybe you would want to do over? Or maybe it was the one that you crushed? Like, is there one that stands out or is there a moment? 

JB Mauney: The one that holds the most weight is Bushwacker. I'm not saying it was the best ride I ever made or...

Chris Powers: What's the best ride you ever made? 

JB Mauney: I don't- There's a couple of them. I think a couple of the Bruiser rides were pretty good. And what I define as one of my best rides wouldn't be what you would think some of them. Just because of the way that, the way I rode them. Like, I wrote a bull of HD’s and they called him Buck Autism. 

Chris Powers: Buck Autism. 

JB Mauney: And before I got on him, he had been manhandling everybody that had got on him. And I got in time with him, and I think I was 91 points on him. And somebody messaged me the other day and said, man, that ride of you on Buck Autism popped up. He's like, I forgot how rank that was. And from the video angle, you can't- Like, if you look it up on YouTube, the first couple angles, you can't really tell he's bucking that hard. Because they're kind of up, so you can't see how high he's kicking and things like that. And then they show a third angle, and it's straight on at the bucking chute. And you can see, like this thing's nose is touching the ground, and he is just straight up and straight down when he was bucking. And I got in time. And the best part was when the whistle blew, I pulled my tail and I just stepped right off on my feet and walked. Like, I just stepped out of the pickup. And that's what HD told me. I walked back to him. He said, good ride, but, man, you could have at least got off hard. He said, you just- And it didn't ever happen that much like that. But like, I pulled my tail, I felt it all come loose, and that pinky come out of my handle. So, I knew it was going to come out. And I just picked my leg up, and he kicked, and I just stepped off right beside him and just walked. And I threw my hat and kept walking. And that's why, like I watch that... 

Chris Powers: I haven't seen that. I'm going to go watch that one. 

JB Mauney: It's Buck Autism. Like the dismount’s the best part. Like, I felt like I rode bulls pretty decent, but I was always pumped when I made a good dismount. I was like, look, that's smooth right there. It didn't happen very often. Usually, it was a wreck. But I don't know. There's a few bulls in that list. Bushwhacker will always be the top. 

Chris Powers: It will be the best. Was that your high score ever? 

JB Mauney: Yes. 

Chris Powers: What was that? 93 and a half, 94? 

JB Mauney: It was somewhere around there. I don't know. I can't- that one meant the most because I'd been on him so many times. 

Chris Powers: And, dude, it was close. 

JB Mauney: Oh, yeah. 8.1. 

Chris Powers: It was right on the nose. 

JB Mauney: I mean, 0 for 13. 

Chris Powers: Nobody ever rode him after that, or did anybody ever ride him? 

JB Mauney: No. They asked me when they retired him, someone said, oh, I bet you feel bad. You hate seeing them retire Bushwhacker. I was like, no, I don't. I don’t have to get on him anymore. I can start winning more money now. Because it just- I backed myself in the corner is what happened with him. Like... I picked him. I couldn't say no because I was the type, like, if I got on one, he bucked me off, I wanted him the next day. I might have to wait a week, but I want to get on him the next day to prove that I figured him out. He may have got me one time, but we'll figure him out the second time. Well, that one, I just kept telling, I'll figure him out. Geez, I'll figure him out. And when I did ride him that night, I'd set all kinds of game plans on staying forward, staying out over him. And the night I rode him, I said, hell with it. I'm just going to nod and go with it, and whatever happens, happens. And, yeah, that was... A person asked me, I bet you’re sad they retired him. I said, nope, not at all. 

Chris Powers: That is a bull I wanted to see retire.

JB Mauney: Yeah, I'm glad he went out on top and he's not hurt or anything like that, but, yeah, I'm very happy he's done. I'd have probably had to keep picking him if they’d have kept bucking him. 

Chris Powers: Would they have let you keep picking him? 

JB Mauney: Oh, yeah. 

Chris Powers: But once you've got him, you just- Or you rode him two more times after. 

JB Mauney: I attempted. 

Chris Powers: Were you kind of trying to be a little like, I'm going to get him twice now, obviously? 

JB Mauney: Well, yeah. 

Chris Powers: Did you pick him the next two times or did you draw him? 

JB Mauney: I picked him. Where I was sitting in the round, the only way I could have won the event was to be 94 or 5 points. So I had to pick him. I was trying to win the event. It didn't really... It didn't have to do with him specifically. Like after I rode him, then that was, if I needed him to win an event, be enough points, that's what I picked. 

Chris Powers: The one thing I didn't ask, I just said, is it possible for a bull- Well, maybe I didn't even ask. Can a bull get a 50? 

JB Mauney: It'd be pretty hard. 

Chris Powers: Can a guy, can a rider get a 50? 

JB Mauney: The PBR... Well, their scoring system's all weird now. They go to the tenths...

Chris Powers: Can't even do that math. 

JB Mauney: They came up with, a while back, ROB, rider over bull. And I asked somebody, I said, I don't see how that works. They said, what do you mean? I said, if I get on a 21 point bull and I ride him dead perfect, don't spur him, don't do anything fancy, just sit up there and ride him damn perfect, just easy, dead, that's a 21 ride on a 21 point bull. I said, now if I get on that 21 pointer and I'm spurring him and showing him I'm in control, yeah, I could see being 22 or 22 and a half on a 21 point bull. I said, but I've watched them score people four points higher than the bull. I said, how can you be four points better than the animal you're on? I said, it makes no sense to me. 

Chris Powers: You answered my question. So, it's symbiotic. You can't be a 50 point rider on a 40 point bull. 

JB Mauney: Nope. 

Chris Powers: By definition, it would be impossible. 

JB Mauney: Yep. 

Chris Powers: What's the spread? What's like the spread that makes the most sense? A point or two points? 

JB Mauney: Yeah, like if I get on a bull and just dominate him, I could see you being a point and a half, two points higher than the bull because you just dominated him. But like, I've seen them mark guys 3 and 4 points better than the bull they're on. And I say, I don't even see how that works. Like, what are you spurring them with both feet? Like, I don't get it. Because you're only as good as the animal you're on. So, if you don't do anything fancy, you shouldn't be marked higher than your bull, like if you just make your ride and get off. And that should be, whatever the bull score was should be identical. And if you get a little out of shape, then your score goes down. But the way they've got it now, I don't know. I don't know if it's a way to justify higher scores. Like, I don't know. 

Chris Powers: So at Bucktown, you have two judges. Is the score just an average of the two? That's how- And then the PBR, it's three judges or is it four? So it's just the average of the four? I would love to see what- Do you ever get to see how all four judges judged it? 

JB Mauney: Oh yeah, I've looked at it a few times.

Chris Powers: Is there ever like big swings there? 

JB Mauney: Oh yeah. I've had big swings when I was riding. Cost me winning an event one time. All the judges had the bull marked to be, it was a 22 and a half, 22 point bull. One judge had me marked to be a 19. Cost me from winning the event. 

Chris Powers: Wait, you're saying 21 and 19. How do you get-?

JB Mauney: Well, each judge... yeah, you mark the bull. 

Chris Powers: Two judges are person, two judges are bull? 

JB Mauney: Well, they all judge the same each. They judge the bull and the rider. 

Chris Powers: I gotcha. 

JB Mauney: But it's 1 to 25. Because like at my house, you got 1 to 25 for the bull, 1 to 25 for the rider from each judge. 

Chris Powers: Oh, that's how you... you add up the two.

JB Mauney: Yeah. For two judges, you add them together. Four judges, you average them. I think that's how the PBR works. 

Chris Powers: And you've seen big swings. 

JB Mauney: Oh, yeah. I mean, human error is going to happen. But the way the PBR is set up with the replay system and things like that, they shouldn't make mistakes. 

Chris Powers: So, do the judges have to put their scores in after the replay system or they put them in, then they replay? 

JB Mauney: Like, they have to put them in right after the... and then if somebody calls for a replay, then they replay it, and sometimes they...  

Chris Powers: Do they ever move it? 

JB Mauney: No, no. The replay is strictly for like if you slapped a bull or a bull failed or if you're trying to get a re-ride or something like that. But they don't ever change the scores. Because I've been on the back end of those replays before, too. 

Chris Powers: Yeah, you've seen them. It's gone for you both ways. 

JB Mauney: Oh, yeah. Cost me about 1.3 million one year. 

Chris Powers: So does one team challenge the- Oh, it did?

JB Mauney: Yeah. They said I slapped a bull in the short round at the World Finals. 

Chris Powers: And you didn't? 

JB Mauney: It was close, but I didn't touch him. 

Chris Powers: Is that your word against it or was it on video? 

JB Mauney: You can look at the video. 

Chris Powers: Is it on YouTube? 

JB Mauney: I don't know if it is or not. I can't find it. 

Chris Powers: But you can tell there's a gap? 

JB Mauney: The angle they watched it from, you couldn't tell whether there was a gap or not. They wouldn't watch it from... 

Chris Powers: Which means they have to give you the benefit? 

JB Mauney: The way the rule book states, if the clock says 8, no judge stopped the clock. If they call for a review on their own, it has to be conclusive evidence to overturn the call in the arena. And so they said it before the short round. I had to be over 90, win the short round, two other guys get bucked off for me to win the World. Well, I was before the other two guys. I had a bull of HDs, and I rode him. I knew it come close, but I didn't slap him. Like I'd tell you. I'd be the first one to tell you if I did or not. And I didn't slap him. Whistle blows. I get off. I throw my hat and everything. I pick my stuff up. They call for a review on their own. The replay judge watched it twice from the same angle above it, said no score before I barely even got out of the arena. They had me marked to be 94 and a half. The other two guys that were in the running, they both got bucked off. I was one mad son of a gun. And me and a certain someone had a discussion about it, and I told him, I said, I've watched y'all watch stuff in five, six different angles all week out here for a guy to be 85 points. I said, I had a million dollars and a gold buckle riding on that one ride. And he watched it twice from the same angle. And he said, well, I watched it back when it was over with. And I said, how many times? He said, I'll watch it back four or five times. And I said, well? He said, I think you slapped him. I said, I'm glad you said that. He said, why? I said, because have you read your rule book lately? He said, what do you mean? I said, it plainly states in your rulebook, whatever the clock says in the arena, whatever the arena, the call in the arena was, has to be conclusive evidence to overturn it. And I said, last time I checked, that clock said eight. And I said, if you watched it four or five times and think I slapped him, I said, how was the replay judge supposed to watch it twice from that same angle and know I slapped him?  

Chris Powers: What’d they say? It's over? 

JB Mauney: Not a damn word. Nothing. 

Chris Powers: What year was that? 

JB Mauney: ’16. 

Chris Powers: Which you didn't even talk about this. You won ’13, ’15. You said ’14 sucked. Was that the only time in your career you just kind of lost it? 

JB Mauney: Not really. I mean, there was a couple years, a couple different years I'd had... 

Chris Powers: Is it more injury stuff or some years you just don't got it? 

JB Mauney: Just fighting your head, and them injuries build up. And I was always one, like that was the hard part for me was to make it through a whole year healthy. I wouldn't stop going. I would be there all year, but I'd just be beat all to hell. And then I'd get to Vegas, and when they had the finals at Thomas & Mack, somebody, when I made the NFR there, one of the other bull riders said, man, a younger guy, he said, you always wrote good in the Thomas & Mack. I said, evidently you're only remembering the good years. And I said, it went one of two ways in Vegas. I either rode really good and won a pile of money, or I got wrecked out the entire time. There was no- I never went to the finals and just did okay. It was either I was- It was top or bottom. There was no in between for me. I either rode really good and I won a pile or I got wrecked out the entire time. Well, that night I split the round. The first round at the NRF, the first NFR I'd ever been to. Kai and I split first. I walk in the locker room that night and [?] goes, boy, I guess it's going to be a good week. The next night, the bull hits me in the head, knocks me out. I'm dragging beside him, stomps the piss out of me. They put stitches right here, stitches beside this eye, five staples above this ear. And I ended up, my groin was tore off my pelvis. I'd ripped it off. And I walked back in the locker room after they'd sewed my head up and everything. And [?] was sitting over there looking at me. I said, see, I told you. There's no in between. It's either I'm on top, or I'm getting wrecked out the whole time. And I went from winning first to... people texting me, are you still alive? And I finished the week out, though. That was the second bull. I got on eight more bulls that week, but I didn't ride any of them. I was trying, but that was kind of one of my deals. Like, even Cody Webster, he's like, man, you think you ought to sit out a couple rounds? I knew- I didn't know exactly what was wrong with my groin at the time. I knew something was bad wrong with it.

Chris Powers: That was another one of those surprise moments for you. 

JB Mauney: And Cody's like, the bullfighter, he goes, you think you ought to take a round or two off? I said, you think it's going to heal in a round or two? I said, probably will get worse. Probably will get tight. And I said, I know I'm putting you guys in a bind because I couldn't run. I mean, I couldn't mash with it. I couldn't do anything with it. And so, it was a slight snowball’s chance in hell I was going to make the whistle because I couldn't hardly- Like, I'd mash with it and it’d just give out. And I said, but, man, I know I'm putting you in a bad position because I'm not moving very fast when I hit the ground. I said, but, hell, Cody, I said, I've never moved very fast when I hit the ground. I said, I came here to get on 10 bulls, and I'm getting on 10 bulls no matter what. And he said, okay. And I've watched guys, I've seen guys at the NFR, National Finals Rodeo, sit out for a slight tear in something. I'm like, where's the pride? Like, this would be the last place I would ever turn a bull out, no matter what. I mean, I would have to be just some sort of bad, bad hurt not to get on there. That's just how I was. Like, if I entered somewhere, I thought I was obligated to go. I wasn't going to turn out hardly. And they're like, I wanted to prove, like I'm a tough son of a gun. It's the NFR, man. Heck, yeah. And I see guys turning out and that them boys were like, man, you're still getting on? I'm like, yeah, it’s the NFR. It’s the Nationals Finals Rodeo. 

Chris Powers: And you're allowed to sit out some rounds if you want? 

JB Mauney: Well, if you were hurt, like if I would have told them I was going to sit out a round, they would have been fine because my leg, I was hurt. But the NFR, if you sit out one round, you have to sit out two. So, you can't just skip one bull. You gotta sit out two. And I wasn't doing it. I was like, I'm getting on all 10 of them. And I got on all 10 of them, and I was one sore bastard. Somebody said, I was in there, had ice all over, my head's all swelled up. And they said, well, it's the last round, the day we've been looking for. I said, hell, I've been looking for this day for about eight days now. I was hurting. Because I like to play cards and stuff. And that's what they asked me. They said, was you sore? I said, you know I was sore because we were in Vegas. We had a babysitter to watch Jagger if we needed to go out and do anything. And every night, Samantha and Jagger would meet me at the steps at the Thomas & Mack, and I'd walk out, and she's like, what do you want to do? Go to the room now. Like, I was hurting so bad. I'd go in, I'd be stripping clothes off, grab a bag of Epsom salt, and I was headed to the bathtub. 

Chris Powers: And you're just going to sit there? 

JB Mauney: I'd dump it in there and I'd sit in there. And then I have to get her to come help me get out. I couldn't get out of the bathtub. Like, my leg didn't work at all. And like my groin one was about that big, it swelled and just kept getting worse and worse. It's black around my whole leg. And yeah, like it was- I was ready for round 10 to get there. I was ready to go home. I was hurting pretty bad, but I wasn't going to- I was not sitting out. I couldn't do it. 

Chris Powers: And there was the same, what's the guys- Who was the team doctor or the-? Tandy? He's just the guy. 

JB Mauney: They tried. They've put stem units on it and all that stuff, but that shit don't work very good. I had my own concoction. Yeah, get you a little Banamine for horses. 

Chris Powers: That's what you get put in horses. 

JB Mauney: It's not very good for your insides, like your liver and stuff like that. Well, you give it to bulls, too. That's what I gave that bull that cut his foot. That's what I gave him. Banamine. 

Chris Powers: Banamine. 

JB Mauney: It's a painkiller, but you better be in some serious pain to drink it, because it is the nastiest thing you've ever tasted in your entire life. 

Chris Powers: Really? 

JB Mauney: I mean, horrible. I'd mix it in orange juice, take me a couple ccs and shoot ‘er back and keep on rolling. 

Chris Powers: What's it called? Can you just go buy it at like a feed store? Or is it like a prescription? 

JB Mauney: I think you can. 

Chris Powers: I didn't realize that you could do that with Ivermectin. You can just go buy it off the store. 

JB Mauney: Yeah, I think it's just like tractor supply. I think they should have it. But it's nasty. It's horrible. It's the worst taste you've ever- It's terrible. But it would get you by long enough. It’d dull the pain long enough to get by. 

Chris Powers: All right, man. This has been freaking awesome. 

JB Mauney: Appreciate it. 

Chris Powers: This is like we're going to end on Banamine. And we'll do a round two someday. 

JB Mauney: Yeah. Come on. 

Chris Powers: Thank you for coming out. 

JB Mauney: Yes, sir. Thank you for having me.